Hey, so Skyrim SE just arrived as I wanted to play it when the Creation Club releases. I want to make some changes to my Chevalier build because I'm already going to start another playthrough following it on Survival Mode when that releases with the Creation Club so why not try some things out. But first (mainly as I have quite some time to wait) I wanted to ask this:

I want this build to utilize the Champion's Cudgel in some way but I am unsure how effective having two melee weapon skills is for a build. After doing some research on war hammers, the gods of the internet have told me that these weapons were initially designed for combat on horesback. That got me thinking. Since a good portion of my build focuses on horse combat, I was thinking, "What if the Chevalier uses the Champion's Cudgel as a weapon to give him some range and heavy damage from horesback?" The build still primarily uses sword and board while unmounted but this could be a cool thing both from a gameplay persepective and a historical perspective. What do you think? Would this idea be worth the extra perk points?

Let me be clear, okay? That sounds really badass.

It's not all good - gameplay wise I think you do sacrifice some capability by diversifying into Two-Handed as a skill (opportunity cost - those perks could have gone into some other skill that would arguably make you better than going Two-Handed). Especially a dip into Two-Handed tends to be expensive - you want ranks in Barbarian, you want to perk out Champion's Stance, and possibly go up to Devastating Blow and Sweep depending on how being mounted works out (I always dismount for combat so I have 0 experience with this), so it's a major investment.

So you do have to ask yourself how much gameplay capability you sacrifice, if it's worth the loss, and what you can do to make up for it. Especially the last question is important.

But that sounds incredibly awesome

Like, incredibly awesome.

OK so multiple melee skills are kind of a pet peeve of mine.  I have seen it done again and again and every time it has been clunky, underwhelming, and always felt forced.  The concept seemed cool but the actual execution in game just doesn't work.  It makes no sense to switch from two-handed to one-handed, or vice versa, if you are already killing everything with the first weapon.  Every time i see someone attempt such a build I always say the same thing, drop one of the melee skills and just focus on a single style.  I've always been ignored in this and I believe the builds have suffered for it since they end up feeling forced and just not functioning from a gameplay point of view. 

That being said....Aidence, you have finally found a way to legitimize the inclusion of both one-handed and two-handed in a way that feels natural in both a gameplay and roleplay point of view.  Relegating two-handed to horseback feels right and makes the skill a sort of "horsemanship" skill.  Soly raises a good point that there is an oppotunity cost to perking two-handed, but the same could be said about perking any skill and is something that every builder has to consider. 

This is a concept i must explore more of and i can't wait to see what you do with it Aidence. 

Ok. I am definitely going to test this then when the Creation Club and survival mode go live but, in this case, would two-handed be more of a major skill or a minor skill? 

Probably just a minor skill.  The cudgel is very powerful weapon in it's own right and I don't see many of the perks being too useful from horseback.  Probably just ranks in Barbarian and Skullcrusher.  I don't think the other perks would work from horseback but that would take some testing to be sure.

I don't think I'd take Skullcrusher, either; ignoring percentage armor isn't amazing in this game where nearly everything except Dovahkiin has under 100 armor. Five perks into Barbarian... isn't that big a dip, actually, it's still significant but not as big as I'd feared.

Ok, considering you can power attack on horseback, would Champion's Stance be a worthwhile investment?

What I'd do is sort of quickly draw up a level 25 Perk spread without Champion's Stance, and figure out which perk would be dropped to accomodate it. Then ask yourself which perk (Champion's Stance or the dropped perk) is more valuable.

It's worth considering how often you find yourself fighting on horseback (could be fairly often to not very), how often you power attack from horseback (again could be fairly often to not very), and also the fact that Champion's Cudgel is a pretty powerful weapon with a pretty powerful enchantment. Enchantments apply per hit - so power attacks aren't as big a DPS gain as they might be compared to unenchanted.

In the end, I can't make a strong recommendation because I have zero experience with horseback fighting. If it were me, well, one perk isn't that much, so I'd probably do it. But again, zero experience horseback fighting. Give the Champion's Cudgel a whirl on horseback yourself and see how it fares.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/AndersHoover]Aidence[/url] said:[/b]

Ok, considering you can power attack on horseback, would Champion's Stance be a worthwhile investment?

[/blockquote]

That's the thing I'm not sure on.  The power attack perks might not work on horseback, it's something that will need to be tested.  Furthermore, I usually find perks that reduce stamina cost to not be worth it.  You only need 1 stamina to perform a power attack, and items like vegetable soup can turn you into a power attacking freak.

So looking at the perk tree for two-handed the only perk that seems useful for this build is Barbarian, especially since i don't think most of the other perks will even work from horseback.  Soly makes another good point about Skullcrusher, these would be high level perks only taken in the late late game when all the more pertinant perks have been taken and when you start getting to such a high level that you need to squeeze every last bit of effectiveness out of your weapons.

When building a character how do people get these cool fonts i see?