Justiciar Thorien said:

A-Pocky-Hah! said: Wait, so you're telling me... male Altmers are sold like premium cattle? I can see how this would continue in 4E, but man that's fucked up.

You think that would be only okay for the females?))))

The Long-Chapper said:

What's wrong? That people are being treated and compared to animals for breeding, that's what's wrong. That this behavior is probably what leads to the Purges that Thalmor say don't exist in the Fourth Era. Look how they measure the eyes, how they focus on  exact facial details. This is a stone's throw from Eugenics and I wager that this has been their view on breeding from "we are Altmer" day 1. That's some sick shit.

From a narative perspective, it's freaking uncanny as hell how much this parallels what I've written. Wow, just wow. 

 

Lol. As if it's not like that in every other culture and even in the real life. They just say it outright, while we make a nice face and pretend it isn't so. It is quite so, even in our life right now, always has been that way and always will. Maybe just not to the point of the shape of ears, though I wouldn't be surprised if to some even to that point.

And you know what? I think that it's better when it's said outright. It's the pretending and nice facades that make me sick.

 

All races in Tamriel have some measure of Xenophobia, Thorien, that I do not deny at all, but show me a book like this from one of the other regions of Tamriel. I'd love to see it because it would definitely confirm your "everyone is a dickhead" theory. Also, so if you say they are saying this outright and being honest about it then why do Fourth Era Thalmor then deny the Purges were done? Why then even bother hiding the Apraxic Mer? Why not just have them run around with an armband or something and keep them in full public view? Why exile them to sewers that you have to then uncover in a quest? I think they are just as guilty of pretending and nice facades too. The whole dlc Summerset is about nice facades and pretending, like a beautiful fruit, all ripe and delicious looking on the outside, only to reveal the deep rot when you cut into it. 

Ah, but that's not what I meant. Actually the opposite. Why not wanting to mix your blood with something you see as unworthy means being a dickhead? Why not wanting your children to be something ugly and inferior is bad?

Why hide the apraxic mer? Well, for the same reason as why not go on the street naked and not do other things on the street which are usually not discussed in public, no?. It's about dignity, not pretending. If everything disgusting in the world was in the full view, would we be able to see anything else? Would we want to live in such a world?

Every society has some scum, it's a fact of life. Should they be treated like they never did nothing wrong instead? Shouldn't those who have commited a crime pay for it? We don't really know the whole story about the purges, but we have only heard the opinion of one side on that matter. Also, almost every criminal will scream that he is innocent and it's those evil cops who threw him into the prison. 

Justiciar Thorien said:

Ah, but that's not what I meant. Actually the opposite. Why not wanting to mix your blood with something you see as unworthy means being a dickhead? Why not wanting your children to be something ugly and inferior is bad?

Why hide the apraxic mer? Well, for the same reason as why not go on the street naked and not do other things on the street which are usually not discussed in public, no?. It's about dignity, not pretending. If everything disgusting in the world was in the full view, would we be able to see anything else? Would we want to live in such a world?

Every society has some scum, it's a fact of life. Should they be treated like they never did nothing wrong instead? Shouldn't those who have commited a crime pay for it? We don't really know the whole story about the purges, but we have only heard the opinion of one side on that matter. Also, almost every criminal will scream that he is innocent and it's those evil cops who threw him into the prison. 

Because then we get into the conversation of what determines worthiness, Thorien. Where do you draw the line? Sure, first it's major disease or whatnot, like how  the Spartans perhaps tossed babies that were not guaranteed to survive, but then, why not then move on to eye color or nose shape, things that have absolutely no bearing on the health of an individual or their intelligence or their ability to contribute to society. When is ugly inferior and not just ugly?  

But not every apraxic mer is apraxic because they openly did something wrong, which is the impression I got from the whole Queen of Rats questline as it was told to me. Yes, the person from price of praxis murdered someone and yes, his crime justifies his status change, I'm not saying you shouldn't be punished for legit crimes, but again, where do you draw the line? What if you are declared apraxic simply because you don't have the same views or you were from the wrong family or you cut your hedges wrong? 

Of course criminals should be treated in accordance to the laws of the land. But scum and criminal are not the same words. And what defines scum? This is again subjective. 

 

The Long-Chapper said:

Because then we get into the conversation of what determines worthiness, Thorien. Where do you draw the line? Sure, first it's major disease or whatnot, like how  the Spartans perhaps tossed babies that were not guaranteed to survive, but then, why not then move on to eye color or nose shape, things that have absolutely no bearing on the health of an individual or their intelligence or their ability to contribute to society. When is ugly inferior and not just ugly?  

Well, ugly is always inferior. And here I mean ugly not as in not fitting into someone's subjective preferences but rather deformed, not being the way it is supposed to be by its nature. And when something is deformed, it's never "just because", there is always a reason even if it's not obvious. So if we talk about colors and nose shapes, we cannot throw everything into one pile, every particular case must be viewed individually.

What determines one's ability to contribute to society? Is it only intelligence?

I don't think there must be just one line. What I do believe is that there should be rules, criteria. It is what brings order and clarity.

The Long-Chapper said:

 

But not every apraxic mer is apraxic because they openly did something wrong, which is the impression I got from the whole Queen of Rats questline as it was told to me. Yes, the person from price of praxis murdered someone and yes, his crime justifies his status change, I'm not saying you shouldn't be punished for legit crimes, but again, where do you draw the line? What if you are declared apraxic simply because you don't have the same views or you were from the wrong family or you cut your hedges wrong?

Every society has laws, and the laws are usually there for a reason. When someone decides they can choose which laws to obey and which no to, then the anarchy begins. Today someone thinks that fake documents are all right, tomorrow someone decides that killing and raping is all right. This is exactly where the line is. Law is law. Use break it, you pay the price. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but one cannot be declared apraxic just by anyone, it's a figure like a judge who can only do it, no? I really doubt that there is an actual law that allows to declare someone apraxic because they don't have the same views. Because they chose to act on those views - more likely.

The Long-Chapper said:

Of course criminals should be treated in accordance to the laws of the land. But scum and criminal are not the same words. And what  defines scum? This is again subjective.  

It is, indeed. What I mean under the word 'scum' here is people who disregard all the values and laws of the society, care only for their own wishes and are ready to do various atrocities to achieve those wishes. Indeed these are not always criminals, but if they aren't it's usually only because they are afraid of punishment.

 

Karver the Lorc said:

On an unrelated note to Towers, this one made me shake my head. It´s like damn horse breeding.

Dearest Niece,

What a profound delight to hear from you! And five-fold felicitations on your glorious Aednavorith attestation! Your mother could barely contain her excitement on her last visit. How wonderful that your results surpassed even her wildest imaginings. As for me, I never had any doubt. We come from a prestigious line, and despite your father's ancestral deficiencies, I knew you would take on the finest aspects of our noble kin. I hear that your skin color and ear-shape reports were particularly favorable. What a relief! As we all know, ear-related flaws run deep in your father's line. How fortunate that you danced around that snare!

Now, to business! In reference to your question, yes, our estate sponsors several fine young Mer of impeccable breeding. I will describe them here in detail, and attach their various attestations for you to peruse. I'm confident you'll find a worthy mate among them.

The first is Talanor—a truly handsome Mer with ties to the prestigious Enruneldinion line. He enjoys the benefits of exceptional height, and the amber eyes characteristic of his father's descent. He suffers only minor flaws in skin color and jaw width, but these are easily overlooked, and likely recessive in nature. He knows his letters very well and excels in all schools of arcane practice. You won't find a more skillful mage at this age. A fine and dignified match, I assure you.

Next is Hiruyon, son of Helebrim. You no doubt recognize the name. Helebrim is one of Summerset's foremost composers—the kind of musical genius that arrives only once in a generation. Hiruyon, to his great credit, possesses many of his father's finer qualities. His singing voice is the envy of Mara herself, and he plays no less than twelve instruments. Alas, his physical qualities fall short of stellar. His facial symmetry leaves something to be desired, due in large part to his smallish eyes. He also suffers from a slight enlargement at the bridge of the nose—a trait indicative of cross-breeding with Men. I leave it to you to decide if such physical deficiencies overwhelm his ample talents and charming disposition. At the very least, his paternal accolades will serve you well at court.

We come at last to my favorite of the bunch: Pelanrel. Call me shallow if you wish! This fiery youth rivals Trinimac himself in terms of appearance and temperament. His countenance bears an uncanny resemblance to our Aldmeri forebears. Truly, he could have walked off a kinlord's tapestry. Wide almond eyes, ears as sharp as daggers, and the narrow, hawk-like aspect of our ancient kin. Marvelous! He displays great strength and speed on the sparring ground and the gaming field, and took to smithing like a lark to the wind. His only shortcomings lie in his magical and scholarly aptitude. But I have confidence that our shared ancestry would easily overcome such a weakness.

Write me back without delay, dearest niece! I'm anxious to find out which of these fine stallions you find most intriguing. If we move quickly, we may have a new child to spoil within the year!

Your Loving Aunt,
Ambarre

Well, I don't know about you but Talanor sounds positively dreamy! Hiruyon has, undoubtedly, very clever fingers which likely make up for his rather discouraging features, though. Not a problem, after the music stops just close your eyes and think of Alinor, right?

Justiciar Thorien said:

Towers aren't what anchors the Dragon in place (does he even need to be anchored?), they are the persisting variables in the equation. They set the direction to all the universe. That means, even in a timeline where one of the Towers was never built (the variable equals zero?) there is still an implication that it is there. So yes, even when the time splits and breaks, the direction persists.

I'm going to need to break your reply down into several posts, Thuri, mostly because it's complicated and I need to wrap my own mind around it in order to mesh your view with what is in my own noggin. :D That way I can better provide insight into the things I feel work better than others.

Starting with the dragon of time being bound...

The spike of Ada-Mantia, and its Zero Stone, dictated the structure of reality in its Aurbic vicinity, defining for the Earth Bones their story or nature within the unfolding of the Dragon’s (timebound) Tale. Aurbic Enigma 

So we have this idea in which the moment Direnni Tower is erected sort of becomes the moment that Lorkhan's plan succeeds. No longer is the serpent Aetheric and non-linear, Time is now an arrow that will only ever flow in one direction. The Mer, in their myths, wish to go back to that state of spirit. So I think with that in mind and also knowing that White Gold exists in every point in time, we could say that when the dragon breaks the moment is accessible to be viewed and watched until that stream makes its way back into the main river: Just hop into the Crystal Tower and use it as a door to anywhere, even the White Gold in another point in time.

The fact we get to fight a person from an alternate timeline is strong evidence to support a "many worlds" theory in TES. That said, Warp in the West is basically the biggest evidence to refute the idea that a timeline seperate from the one we know can long persist. In that event, all possible endings were tied together and all timelines created were fused...

...Unless of course that's exactly what we witness in Summerset when we fight and kill those alternate Psijic Ladies. Maybe had we to have not done so, those timelines would have continued? I honestly don't know, but it does support your idea that each soul contains a perspective universe. Hers ended (and all those within it) when we kill her, perhaps.

Actually... You may be bang on the money.

Okay, not really related to Altmer and such, but since it is a book located in Summerset I just feel obliged to share it. URBEK SMASH!

ART OF SMASHING VOL. 1

FOREWORD:

URBEK HOPE THIS BOOK BRING READER JOY AND CONFIDENCE TO PURSUE DREAMS OF SMASHING FOR FUN AND PROFIT. WHEN URBEK FIRST START SMASHING HE WAS JUST TINY, FLIMSY CHILD CHIPPING ROCK FOR TUMNOSH CLAN. URBEK HAD SETBACKS LEARNING TO SMASH MANY THINGS, ESPECIALLY PAPER. NOW URBEK SUCCESSFUL ENTREPRENEUR WITH GROWING WORDSMASHING BUSINESS. NEVER LET TOUGHNESS OF SMASHING SMASH YOU DOWN. WHEN SMASHING GET TOUGH, SMASH TOUGHER.

DEDICATION:

TO URBEK FIRST PATRON FOR SUPPORTING URBEK THROUGH EARLY JOURNEY OF SMASHING, TO FARROKH FOR BEING GOOD FRIEND TO URBEK, AND TO LITTLE CHIEF LAUMONT FOR LETTING URBEK SLEEP ON FLOOR.

CHAPTER 1: FINDING RIGHT THINGS TO SMASH

NOW THAT YOU CHOOSE TO PURSUE ART OF SMASHING, URBEK EXPECT YOU UNSURE OF WHERE TO START. NOT EVERYTHING SUITABLE FOR SMASHING. WOOD FUN TO SMASH, BUT ONLY SPLINTERS AND BREAKS. SOME METAL GREAT FOR SMASHING, BUT SOME ONLY MAKE BRITTLE, WEAK THINGS UNLESS YOU KNOW RIGHT WAY TO SMASH THEM. WHEN WORLD FULL OF SO MANY THINGS TO SMASH, HOW YOU KNOW WHAT BEST FOR BEGINNER? ANSWER SIMPLE: SMASH ROCKS.

SOME READER MIGHT THINK SMASHING ROCKS POINTLESS. THAT READER STUPID. URBEK JUST TELL YOU URBEK GET HIS START SMASHING ROCKS. SMASHING ROCKS BUILDS IMPORTANT SMASHING MUSCLES AND LET YOU GATHER ORE TO SMASH WHEN YOU READY TO TAKE ON GREATER SMASHING CHALLENGE. URBEK RECOMMEND STARTING WITH SMALL ROCKS AND WORK UP TO BIGGER ROCKS OR STONE WALLS SO YOU NOT GET HURT, UNLESS YOU ORC.

WHEN YOU CAN SMASH ALL DAY WITHOUT REST, YOU READY TO TAKE ON USEFUL SMASHING LIKE MAKING HAMMERS. URBEK THINK YOU MAY BE TEMPTED TO KEEP SMASHING STONE, MAYBE MAKE STATUE. URBEK NOT WANT TO DISCOURAGE READER FROM PURSUING PASSION, BUT MAKING PRETTY THING FROM STONE TAKE MASTERY OF GENTLE-SMASHING. URBEK SHARE THAT ADVANCED SMASHING TECHNIQUE IN LATER VOLUME. IN NEXT CHAPTER WE COVER WAYS TO SMASH ORE. URBEK RECOMMEND READER HAVE ACCESS TO FORGE FOR NEXT LESSON.

 

Man. This whole thing is getting too real. The Elder Scrolls are actually games, you know? I mean the actual scrolls are each game worlds. "When the next Elder Scroll is written, you will be its author." Which is to say, it's by your actions in this game that determines the direction of the next game. But this whole thing with alternate realities and timelines almost perfectly describes ESO. I can meet up with guildies and it appears as though we are in the same reality. But our timelines are seperate, and the things we each experience when not together are their own contained worlds. TES is messing with us and showing the metagame lore far more visibly in Summerset, I think.

Karver the Lorc said:

Okay, not really related to Altmer and such, but since it is a book located in Summerset I just feel obliged to share it. URBEK SMASH!

ART OF SMASHING VOL. 1

FOREWORD:

URBEK HOPE THIS BOOK BRING READER JOY AND CONFIDENCE TO PURSUE DREAMS OF SMASHING FOR FUN AND PROFIT. WHEN URBEK FIRST START SMASHING HE WAS JUST TINY, FLIMSY CHILD CHIPPING ROCK FOR TUMNOSH CLAN. URBEK HAD SETBACKS LEARNING TO SMASH MANY THINGS, ESPECIALLY PAPER. NOW URBEK SUCCESSFUL ENTREPRENEUR WITH GROWING WORDSMASHING BUSINESS. NEVER LET TOUGHNESS OF SMASHING SMASH YOU DOWN. WHEN SMASHING GET TOUGH, SMASH TOUGHER.

DEDICATION:

TO URBEK FIRST PATRON FOR SUPPORTING URBEK THROUGH EARLY JOURNEY OF SMASHING, TO FARROKH FOR BEING GOOD FRIEND TO URBEK, AND TO LITTLE CHIEF LAUMONT FOR LETTING URBEK SLEEP ON FLOOR.

CHAPTER 1: FINDING RIGHT THINGS TO SMASH

NOW THAT YOU CHOOSE TO PURSUE ART OF SMASHING, URBEK EXPECT YOU UNSURE OF WHERE TO START. NOT EVERYTHING SUITABLE FOR SMASHING. WOOD FUN TO SMASH, BUT ONLY SPLINTERS AND BREAKS. SOME METAL GREAT FOR SMASHING, BUT SOME ONLY MAKE BRITTLE, WEAK THINGS UNLESS YOU KNOW RIGHT WAY TO SMASH THEM. WHEN WORLD FULL OF SO MANY THINGS TO SMASH, HOW YOU KNOW WHAT BEST FOR BEGINNER? ANSWER SIMPLE: SMASH ROCKS.

SOME READER MIGHT THINK SMASHING ROCKS POINTLESS. THAT READER STUPID. URBEK JUST TELL YOU URBEK GET HIS START SMASHING ROCKS. SMASHING ROCKS BUILDS IMPORTANT SMASHING MUSCLES AND LET YOU GATHER ORE TO SMASH WHEN YOU READY TO TAKE ON GREATER SMASHING CHALLENGE. URBEK RECOMMEND STARTING WITH SMALL ROCKS AND WORK UP TO BIGGER ROCKS OR STONE WALLS SO YOU NOT GET HURT, UNLESS YOU ORC.

WHEN YOU CAN SMASH ALL DAY WITHOUT REST, YOU READY TO TAKE ON USEFUL SMASHING LIKE MAKING HAMMERS. URBEK THINK YOU MAY BE TEMPTED TO KEEP SMASHING STONE, MAYBE MAKE STATUE. URBEK NOT WANT TO DISCOURAGE READER FROM PURSUING PASSION, BUT MAKING PRETTY THING FROM STONE TAKE MASTERY OF GENTLE-SMASHING. URBEK SHARE THAT ADVANCED SMASHING TECHNIQUE IN LATER VOLUME. IN NEXT CHAPTER WE COVER WAYS TO SMASH ORE. URBEK RECOMMEND READER HAVE ACCESS TO FORGE FOR NEXT LESSON.

 

Now this made me not just smile but truly laugh))) "So you not get hurt unless you Orc", indeed)))))

I'm interested to know more about his SMASHING lessons. :D