Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

The Ancient Nordic Pantheon

• Karver the Lorc

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  Nah, I´m just kidding, mate. I´m not saying it´s not possible. You know my opinion on Yffre, but that´s only something I think, I don´t consider it in my head as the only truth. 

  It´s just that with all the research we did, it´s hard for me to see any connection between Yffre and Kynareth. 

  Thorien says that if Yffre had planet it would be Nirn, but I kinda can´t agree with that either. Yffre is somewhat bound only to Valenwood - which means he´s quite connected to Nirn - just as the Green Sap is. It´s hard for me not to see connection there.

  Nah, I´m just kidding, mate. I´m not saying it´s not possible. You know my opinion on Yffre, but that´s only something I think, I don´t consider it in my head as the only truth. 

  It´s just that with all the research we did, it´s hard for me to see any connection between Yffre and Kynareth. 

  Thorien says that if Yffre had planet it would be Nirn, but I kinda can´t agree with that either. Yffre is somewhat bound only to Valenwood - which means he´s quite connected to Nirn - just as the Green Sap is. It´s hard for me not to see connection there.

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  You prefer Thalmor inquisition squad?)))

  Nir is kinda level up, more like the Aetherius than Nirn. And Y'ffre isn't Nirn itself, he makes up the laws of nature. He is a part of Nirn anyway. And while I personally think that Y'ffre doesn't really have a gender, there are different opinions on that in various sources.

  You prefer Thalmor inquisition squad?)))

  Nir is kinda level up, more like the Aetherius than Nirn. And Y'ffre isn't Nirn itself, he makes up the laws of nature. He is a part of Nirn anyway. And while I personally think that Y'ffre doesn't really have a gender, there are different opinions on that in various sources.

• Tom

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  To offer a differeing opinion than Phil.

  I must state that I don't view the Wheel and it's static numbers as something more significant than a metaphor for the structure of the Aubris. I also view the Imperial Divines as a simplistic list of "canon" deities that the State endorses, whether that State is the Alessians, the Remans, or the Septims and now Medes.

  To get back to basics, when the forces of Anu and Sithis mixed, their influences created spirits. Aka, Lorkhan, Magnus, Nocturnal, Hermaeus Mora, Kynareth, etc.

  Then Lorkhan had a revelation on the nature of existence, which is simplifie in the concept of the Wheel and the Tower. So he goes to the other spirits with his idea for a new realm, and either deceives or convinces them on the nature of this new realm being worthwhile (that opinion is where Men and Elves first became separate). Those that accept are labeled Aedra. Those that don't are Daedra. Those that accept at first then change their mind and flee with Magnus are Magne'Ge.

  These spirits are innumerable. Some are great and powerful (Aka, Magnus, Lorkhan, what would become the Daedric Princes), others are weak and less defined (what would become lesser Daedra, Magna'Ge, and Ehlnofey).

  Are Kyne and Kynareth the same god? Yes and no. Mortals can change the nature of the gods (see Auriel's exorcism into Akatosh). There was a deity who's innate being is linked with nature and weather, and who gave up her power and life force to become part of the physical laws of nature and weather. The Nords recall her as Kyne, the Widow of their Cheiftain Shor (who is Lorkhan), a warrior goddess who created them. Other human tribes see her as Kynareth who is still that nature and weather deity, but her personality is completely different and her significance less.

  Are there other nature or storm deities? Yes. They may not be more powerful or more significant to some people than Kynareth/Kyne.

  Y'ffre, I should note, differs dramatically from Kynareth despite both being connected to nature. Kynareth/Kyne is always a strong supporter of Lorkhan and his endeavor. Y'ffre is always allied with Auriel. That's where most of the Elvish and Mannish gods differ. Those that sided with Lorkhan are the gods of Men, those that sided with Auriel are gods of Elves. Men and elves were once the same people, and their ideological differences are what sundered them into different races.

  To offer a differeing opinion than Phil.

  I must state that I don't view the Wheel and it's static numbers as something more significant than a metaphor for the structure of the Aubris. I also view the Imperial Divines as a simplistic list of "canon" deities that the State endorses, whether that State is the Alessians, the Remans, or the Septims and now Medes.

  To get back to basics, when the forces of Anu and Sithis mixed, their influences created spirits. Aka, Lorkhan, Magnus, Nocturnal, Hermaeus Mora, Kynareth, etc.

  Then Lorkhan had a revelation on the nature of existence, which is simplifie in the concept of the Wheel and the Tower. So he goes to the other spirits with his idea for a new realm, and either deceives or convinces them on the nature of this new realm being worthwhile (that opinion is where Men and Elves first became separate). Those that accept are labeled Aedra. Those that don't are Daedra. Those that accept at first then change their mind and flee with Magnus are Magne'Ge.

  These spirits are innumerable. Some are great and powerful (Aka, Magnus, Lorkhan, what would become the Daedric Princes), others are weak and less defined (what would become lesser Daedra, Magna'Ge, and Ehlnofey).

  Are Kyne and Kynareth the same god? Yes and no. Mortals can change the nature of the gods (see Auriel's exorcism into Akatosh). There was a deity who's innate being is linked with nature and weather, and who gave up her power and life force to become part of the physical laws of nature and weather. The Nords recall her as Kyne, the Widow of their Cheiftain Shor (who is Lorkhan), a warrior goddess who created them. Other human tribes see her as Kynareth who is still that nature and weather deity, but her personality is completely different and her significance less.

  Are there other nature or storm deities? Yes. They may not be more powerful or more significant to some people than Kynareth/Kyne.

  Y'ffre, I should note, differs dramatically from Kynareth despite both being connected to nature. Kynareth/Kyne is always a strong supporter of Lorkhan and his endeavor. Y'ffre is always allied with Auriel. That's where most of the Elvish and Mannish gods differ. Those that sided with Lorkhan are the gods of Men, those that sided with Auriel are gods of Elves. Men and elves were once the same people, and their ideological differences are what sundered them into different races.

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  Seems like you're right...

  Seems like you're right...

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  There is room for that in the standard model, it's still all there. It goes without saying that the Ge happened and the Deadra happened, I just left it out for simplicity.

  In a way you offer a middle ground:

   Men and elves were once the same people, and their ideological differences are what sundered them into different races.

  The gods, the ancestors of man and mer, must all be the same if the races share common ancestors. The only real distinction is that where I see those ideological differences only evolving over time, you suggest they were inherent. 

  There is room for that in the standard model, it's still all there. It goes without saying that the Ge happened and the Deadra happened, I just left it out for simplicity.

  In a way you offer a middle ground:

   Men and elves were once the same people, and their ideological differences are what sundered them into different races.

  The gods, the ancestors of man and mer, must all be the same if the races share common ancestors. The only real distinction is that where I see those ideological differences only evolving over time, you suggest they were inherent. 

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  Lissette says they all descend from the Ehlnofey, not from the Aedra. And I think she is right. As for the Aedra, it seems like they influenced their evolution in the beginning of the time and that is actually why they became various races.

  Lissette says they all descend from the Ehlnofey, not from the Aedra. And I think she is right. As for the Aedra, it seems like they influenced their evolution in the beginning of the time and that is actually why they became various races.

• Karver the Lorc

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  How can you descend from something that is basicaly dead? They descend from those et'Ada, those that stayed and with every new generation the blood was thinner. Elves (supposedly) can trace their lineage back to et'Ada like Trinimac, Xarxes, Phynaster and even Aedra like Auriel. Ehlnofey are those who solidified the world after it's creation, so I can't imagine (earth)bones having descendants. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

  How can you descend from something that is basicaly dead? They descend from those et'Ada, those that stayed and with every new generation the blood was thinner. Elves (supposedly) can trace their lineage back to et'Ada like Trinimac, Xarxes, Phynaster and even Aedra like Auriel. Ehlnofey are those who solidified the world after it's creation, so I can't imagine (earth)bones having descendants. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.
• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  The Ehlnofey, sometimes spelled Elhnofey,^[1] of the Dawn Era are a group of et'Ada who, along with the Hist, decided not to abandon Mundus, and instead worked to keep it viable. They remained in the mortal realm and populated it, becoming the progenitors of the modern races.^[2][3] Many followed the example of Y'ffre and sacrificed themselves to form the rules of nature,^[4] and it's been found that these "Earth Bones" can be manipulated to some extent.^[2][5] Perhaps because of their association with the land itself, "Old Ehlnofey" became another name for Aldmeris, the mystical homeland of the elves.^[6][7] Their language or languages became known as Ehlnofex.^[2]

  The implication is that while many sacrificed, others remained and populated. They can actually still trace their lineage to Auri-El if you think about it. 

  The Ehlnofey, sometimes spelled Elhnofey,^[1] of the Dawn Era are a group of et'Ada who, along with the Hist, decided not to abandon Mundus, and instead worked to keep it viable. They remained in the mortal realm and populated it, becoming the progenitors of the modern races.^[2][3] Many followed the example of Y'ffre and sacrificed themselves to form the rules of nature,^[4] and it's been found that these "Earth Bones" can be manipulated to some extent.^[2][5] Perhaps because of their association with the land itself, "Old Ehlnofey" became another name for Aldmeris, the mystical homeland of the elves.^[6][7] Their language or languages became known as Ehlnofex.^[2]

  The implication is that while many sacrificed, others remained and populated. They can actually still trace their lineage to Auri-El if you think about it. 

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  Aedra means ancestors to the elves. That is why I hardly use the term.

  Aedra means ancestors to the elves. That is why I hardly use the term.

• Karver the Lorc

  

  Member
   

  February 27, 2016

  Huh. That's why I said someone should correct me xD I always thought that Ehlnofey were only Earthbones. You learn something new everyday :)

  Huh. That's why I said someone should correct me xD I always thought that Ehlnofey were only Earthbones. You learn something new everyday :)