Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


The Ancient Nordic Pantheon

  • February 25, 2016

    I know. But the Nords didn't. But they probably did worship Talos. I wonder could they start worshipping him because of Wulfhart snd the Greybeards?

  • Member
    February 25, 2016

    I was hoping to get to that point. If we look back at the dev doc about the Dragonborn God, Talos, conceivably Reman was as important before Talos and Alessia before him. Bruma's proximity to Sancre Tor, then, need not be just of Imperial significance.

  • Tom
    Member
    February 25, 2016

    I'll be honest Phil, I don't think the Jurgen theory has any real plausibility. We still have many Nords referring to Kyne instead of Kynareth, and their society is still obsessed with Shor and Sovngarde. These aren't Imperial doctrines and quite the opposite when it comes to Shor.

    How is the Nords being converted thousands of years ago more plausible than the last 200 years? Does it really make more sense for Bruma to be this ancient relic at the heart of Tamriel that the Nords of little in common religiously?

  • Tom
    Member
    February 25, 2016

    The differences between Reman and Tiber Septim are strikingly obvious I'd think. I don't recall Reman ever being summoned to High Hrothgar and having the Greybeard's blessings either (I could be mistaken on that).

    Reman's story is inherently tied with Cyrodiil and Alessia. Even if he can weild the Thu'um, he's still a foreigner. The heartland of Tamriel is named after him, his myth states he was born from the very soil infused with Alessia as his mother, another foreigner with strange gods.

    Regardless of Septim's true heritage he was tied up with King Wulfharth the Shezarrine, learned how to use the Thu'um, an got the blessing an recognition of the Greybeard's as Ysmir and Talos. He truly became a god, and demonstrated his power.

    Reman was just a man some worshipped as a god. Tiber Septim was a man who became a god.

  • Member
    February 26, 2016

    That stuff never went away though, did it? I mean, Shezarr and the Divines says that the Nords would have been angry with the absolute removal of Shor and so accepted Shezarr as the missing god.

    So we have evidence that they accepted the Imperial Faith all the way back in the 1E 240's. That is five hundred years before Jurgen's day. So, from that perspective, it is harder to imagine that the Nords clung onto their old Pantheon and only took to the new ways in the last two centuries.

    Now, even if you argue that the Nords referenced in Shezarr and the Divines aren't Skyrim Nords but cyro-Nords, then there is still the matter of Borgas. In his time Skyrim was not a traditional pantheon otherwise Wulfy's "fiery reinstatement" would have been unnecessary. So we can see this thematic shift of religion throughout Skyrim's history.

    So that begs the question: What was the Alessian Order's religious beliefs?

    It depends on how you interpret the sources but I think it nay be worth breaking down the First Empire of the Nords and juxtaposition it over the First Cyrodiilic Empire so we can get a sense of cultural boundaries.

    I guess I am in two minds about it. I can accept that the Nine Divines is a relatively new thing to Skyrim but I find it hard to agree that it is only since the Oblivion Crisis. More likely it was Tiber himself who converted Skyrim to The Nine.

    Or maybe the dialogue in Bruma about heathen gods is a reference to the PGE 1Ed?

    The northern and western Holds -- Winterhold, Eastmarch, Rift, and the Pale, known collectively as the Old Holds -- remain more isolated, by geography and choice, and the Nords there still hold true to the old ways.

    Geographical errors aside, this could be where the problems arise - half of Skyrim is traditional, the other half is more Imperialised. Man, I love PGE 1Ed it is so unreliable

  • Member
    February 26, 2016

    That's all true and valid. But Reman's importance in Skyrim cannot be totally dismissed. The building of Skyhaven Temple and Alduin's wall is testament to the Empire's reach.

    I am suggesting that a Dragonborn warrior like Reman with an army of Akaviri dragon hunters under his command would be a hugely significant thing to the Nords. The slayers of their ancient foe marching around Skyrim and slaying dragons is pretty huge.

  • February 26, 2016

    Reman might have importance to the Nords too (Skyrim eventually was a part of his empire too, after all), but it's never said anythere that they saw him as a god. Tom is right, the importance of Talos to them is much more.

  • February 26, 2016

    Tiber converted Skyrim to the Nine (only it was still the Eight back then, otherwise it looks weird as Oblivion)??? That makes me wonder which gods he himself worshiped...

  • Member
    February 26, 2016

    Alright, Eight. I misspoke

  • February 26, 2016

    Poor Nords. Everyone seems to be converting them back and forth XD