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  • Member
    May 11, 2017

    Karver the Lorc said: No problem, mate. If you'll be still interested in the Trinimac/Malacath thing I recommend you to find "The State of Trinimac" on Imperial Library. Could give you a different perspective on that matter.

    Just given it a quick read and it's an interesting read. I've never thought about a god being so intrinsically connected with a race, but then again just look a the Tribunal and the Chimer/Dunmer. Hmmm, it's definitely food for thought. Thanks again Karv!

  • Member
    May 11, 2017

    The Lorc has set you on the Akatosh/Auriel thing, so I thought I'd leave you this linky on The Many Faces of Akatosh. It's an old discussion, Zon, and one I will restore links and pictures to, but it serves the purpose of going just below the surface of the time gods and how they are shaped by mythopoeic forces :)

  • Member
    May 11, 2017

    Paws said:

    The Lorc has set you on the Akatosh/Auriel thing, so I thought I'd leave you this linky on The Many Faces of Akatosh. It's an old discussion, Zon, and one I will restore links and pictures to, but it serves the purpose of going just below the surface of the time gods and how they are shaped by mythopoeic forces :)

     

    creating a new human-centric time god who being a time god has both only just been created and simultaneously always existed.

     

    Separate yet part of the same whole.

    These two quotes are what really gets to me. To use a 'real life' example, could it compare to the Greek and Roman gods? They're two parts of the same whole, both completely distinct of one another but simultaneously bound together at the same time. To use a quote from the childrens book series Percy Jackson 'The Greek gods have a Roman aspect in which their personalities and sometimes attributes change'. So they appear seperate, and might not even know of their other selves, but they're actually the same deity.

  • Member
    May 11, 2017

    I would say that works. The Greek gods existed first, right so if this was TES they would be the products of what people believe. So if an entire culture say that Apollo looks like this and represents that concept, then that is what he is to them.

    Now, the Romans sort of come to be and their myths evolve from the Greek mythology. Their Apollo is pretty much the same, except they later call him Phoebus. If this was TES, Phoebus would then be a new branch formed from the trunk of the Apollo tree. In time, if Phoebus became radically different from Apollo, people would see him as a seperate entity.

    So, it's like these gods in TES are ghosts of what they were. From that essence they left, cultures shape them into new things through belief. And from one can come many shapes, if that makes sense.

    The difficulty and where it gets complex on the subject of greater and lesser spirits, is that while belief can grow a new god (like Alessia dreamt up Akatosh and thus he came to be), the question is whether that happens because these greater spirits are tied to Mundus as much as they are. By sacrificing who they were to create the world, they are bound to it and thus sensitive to mythopoeic forces - myth-making through belief and stories.

    The  entities we call Daedra are not susceptible to this force as much by virtue of not being bound. So belief turning Trinimac into Malacath kinda works because Trinny was an Aedric spirit. But turning Sheogorath into something else through belief doesn't really work because madness will alwas exist.

    So, when I said it was possible to create a bunny god through belief, it is largely down to interpretation. For that rabbit to be a god, it would need to be shaped. Now, if an unknown race of bunnymen from Akavir were discovered, and we found out they worshipped a bunny god of time, then we really would be seeing a rabbit raised to the divine, for that rabbit would be formed from the stuff of the Aka ghost.

    And I think that's how Saints get their power. Worship at a tribunal shrine of a saint and you will get blessed. Is that because the saint has become a lesser spirit and is now divine through belief? Or is it because the saint in question is formed out of the ghost essense of a god?

    It is a thought experiment: My character worships Zonnonn, god of RP. He spreads the word and soon a cult is formed. Then that movement becomes a religion. Because you are worshipped, Zonnon is a god. By all definitions. But can you give me a blessing if I pray at your shrine?

    If yes, is that because I have elevated you to a greater spirit? Or is it because I have formed something that looks, smells, and acts like you from the ghost of another, similar, spirit? :D

    If no, why not? Is that because you are not et'ada? But we know Talos was a mortal just like Zonnonn was.

    It worked fo Talos because he mantled another :)

     

  • Member
    May 12, 2017

    Paws said:

    My character worships Zonnonn, god of RP.

    Because you are worshipped, Zonnon is a god.

    First off, I'm taking this :P

    I finally think I understand the concept now, I won't go into Talos and mantling though because that's a whole different ball game, and my brain isn't ready for that right now.

    Thanks guys, this has been very imformative, and now ES lore is slightly less confusing!

  • Member
    May 12, 2017
    I was wondering. What are the ranks in the Imperial Legion and (if possible) the Aldmeri Dominion military. AFAIK, Skyrim's Imperial Legion questline grants you the ranks Auxiliary, Quaestor, Praefect, and Legate in that order. But in Morrowind, there are the 'Knight' ranks. So I was wondering if those ranks in Morrowind​ are just honorary ranks or are they actually part of the Legion? As for the AD, I heard about Canonreeves, Archreeves, and Battlereeves from ESO as well as Sapiarchs from in-game lore. Could anyone tell me more about them?
  • May 12, 2017

    KaiserSoSay said: I was wondering. What are the ranks in the Imperial Legion and (if possible) the Aldmeri Dominion military. AFAIK, Skyrim's Imperial Legion questline grants you the ranks Auxiliary, Quaestor, Praefect, and Legate in that order. But in Morrowind, there are the 'Knight' ranks. So I was wondering if those ranks in Morrowind​ are just honorary ranks or are they actually part of the Legion? As for the AD, I heard about Canonreeves, Archreeves, and Battlereeves from ESO as well as Sapiarchs from in-game lore. Could anyone tell me more about them?

    Legions isn´t exactly my are of expertise, I always assumed they are using Roman ranks and such.

    But Altmer and their "reeves". That´s a whole different story. The word "Reeve" on its own has few meanings. Reeve in England was an official apointed to supervise land for a lord. In Canada reeve was a chief executive. And there´s also the "Shire reeve" which actually became sheriff later on.

    Ok, so Canonreeve. 

    Little wonder Telenger is regarded as a fine diplomat, or "canonreeve." - Emperor´s Guide - Summerset Isles: Auridon

    One of the Canonreeve's men. He knew exactly what I was doing, almost like he'd been watching me since I got into town. Now I'm sitting in a cell underneath the reeve's manse, waiting his justice - Life in the Eagle´s Shadow

    If you see signs of the Vipers, report them at once to your Canonreeve or the nearest Dominion officer. - Fang of the Sea Vipers

    Also, as you go through Auridon you can notice there´s always one Canonreeve for a city. So I suspect Canonreeve is something like a Mayor of a city or town, probably even a judge, maybe even a constable or something, while also a diplomat.

    Battlereeve: 

    Actually no sources give at least a hint, but I suppose that speaks for everything. All Battlereeves in ESO are usually high ranking officers of Dominion, like Urcelmo who commands Auridon Marines, which would put him into the position of general/admiral maybe? There are others too, commanding forts and troops. So I would go with general or something like that. 

    I haven´t heard Archeeve anywhere, so I can´t say anything about those. Though I do remember Stormreeve with the connection to Maormer. Stormreeves are like generals/battlemages or something. 

    As for Sapiarchs: 

    They were the sages of Crystal Tower, the best magical minds of Isles though Direnni had Sapiarchs too. They should be exclusively scholars and mages. Here are few of the known ones: 

    • Aicantar of Shimmerene - Sapiarch of Indoctrination and member of the Thalmor
    • Ancirinque - Sapiarch of Mythohistory
    • Nolin the Many-Hued - Sapiarch of Enchantment
    • Pelorrah - Assistant Sapiarch of Altmeri Heritage
    • Culalanwe - Sapiarch of Oblivion Studies

    Edit: Just recalled the other reeve. Vicereeve. Should be a diplomat and an advisor I think.

  • Member
    May 15, 2017

    Hello!, I have a specific lore question, about this http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Xivilai_Moath

    According to that a Xivilai called Moath who is the of Xivilai's Clan in service of Clan Dagon. So on the link:

    "Moath was once in the service of Molag Bal. In 2E 582, he was sent to Tamriel by Bal to defend a Dark Anchor opened above Bangkorai Garrison. However, he was swiftly banished by the Daggerfall Covenant forces and the Anchor was released.[2] Some time after this, he passed into the service of Dagon and served as his lieutenant. His clan took part in the invasion of the Battlespire, after which Moath returned to his headquarters in the Havoc Wellhead. Imago Storm gave his neonymic to an apprentice battlemage from the Battlespire, but it is unknown if the apprentice banished him or not. " 

    It is ESO lore, ESO is canon too, but soemtimes seems is not totally can lore friendly, I prefer to think it is in general.

    So my questions are:

    - Can a Xivilai move between oblivion realms?, according to the link it seems so

    - How limitated are Daedra about what they think?, I'm talking about most intelligent Daedras as Xivilai's or Dremoras for example

    - Also, How limited are intelligent Daedra respect their decisions If they took their own decisions or are they just limited by their instincts?

     

    Please I really wich to know for lore purposes, tell me what do you think, I will really appreciate it, thanks

     

  • Member
    May 15, 2017

    Medieval said:

    Hello!, I have a specific lore question, about this http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Xivilai_Moath

    According to that a Xivilai called Moath who is the of Xivilai's Clan in service of Clan Dagon. So on the link:

    "Moath was once in the service of Molag Bal. In 2E 582, he was sent to Tamriel by Bal to defend a Dark Anchor opened above Bangkorai Garrison. However, he was swiftly banished by the Daggerfall Covenant forces and the Anchor was released.[2] Some time after this, he passed into the service of Dagon and served as his lieutenant. His clan took part in the invasion of the Battlespire, after which Moath returned to his headquarters in the Havoc Wellhead. Imago Storm gave his neonymic to an apprentice battlemage from the Battlespire, but it is unknown if the apprentice banished him or not. " 

    It is ESO lore, ESO is canon too, but soemtimes seems is not totally can lore friendly, I prefer to think it is in general.

    So my questions are:

    - Can a Xivilai move between oblivion realms?, according to the link it seems so

    - How limitated are Daedra about what they think?, I'm talking about most intelligent Daedras as Xivilai's or Dremoras for example

     

    Please I really wich to know for lore purposes, tell me what do you think, I will really appreciate it, thanks

    I'm not sure where but I swear I once read that the intelligent daedra, while predominantly linked to certain princes can decide to switch allegiances, although this might only concern Atronachs. As I said; can't find the source so it might need some extra research. If they are able to do so, I would guess the prince they pledge allegiance to brings them to their realm.

    As to their intelligence, I think a great source here would be Varieties of Daedra. It describes the different traits the intelligent daedra respect or possess and some of the differences between them. It's not a complete guide as it describes only the dealings Dyvath Fyr had with the Daedra and he chose the daedra he summoned carefully. But it gives some specifics on Xiviliai and Dremora which you might find useful.

     

  • Member
    May 15, 2017

    Thanks Teineeva, I ask this becuase I want to know how limitated are Daedra the intelligent ones about their decisions, If they really take their own decisions or how much they are limitated by their instincts


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