[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

It's always a weird sort of suspension of disbelief when examining a character's motivation, backstory, and psychology isn't it? Who looks at a dark, yawning cave and thinks, "hey, imma going in!" And that's not even a double entendre. Or is it?

However, like your bullied warrior turned paladin, something happened to make our characters look at that gaping hole and think entering sounds like a solid plan. Often it isn't just one thing but a series a of somethings, a causal tree with hard, deep and twisted roots. Finding moments in-game to help define those roots that shape the viney trunk is always more compelling to me too, but we always need that reason why he or she picked up a staff and thought, "I like how this wood feels in my grasp."

[/blockquote]

The way I see it, a character must be running towards something or away from something to justify for frankly insane quests and adventures they endure. But while 10 different people can have the same goal, the differing in who they are as people results in their different actions.

But sometimes I like to make the trivial become anything but, because eventhough people don't like to admit it lifechanging decisions are made based on triviality. I'm pursuing the career I'm pursuing right now because I didn't have anything better to do and said fuck it, why not? And I can definitely see this happening for a character. Throwing your life on the line at every bend only comes from the very driven or the very lethargic. It's like in the military, from interviews and talking to people I've gathered that people join the military because they feel like they need to, or because they didn't have anything else better to do. And as the life of an adventurer is less restrictive than the military, I can really see this happening.

Hmmm, I think I repeated my point a few times there, but hopefully I got my point across - it takes a special kinda person to do what our characters do, but often they're words apart.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Legion]Legion[/url] said:[/b]

Ebonslayer, this is the best article I've seen on the psychology of characters:

Role Playing Tools: Circles of Character Conflict

I'll come back in a bit and drop something long-winded, as this is just the kind of thing I love gabbing about. 

[/blockquote]

Ah yeah I remember this, fantastic guide. I might have to refresh myself on it again because it's so damn good.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/WerewolfJoe]Wulf[/url] said:[/b]

Well, as I've said on the Goals discussion, Wulf-Blöd, my flagship character, is a khajiit with wolfblood, which curses him to look like a wolf, while hating werewolves - a typical, to fight the enemy, become the enemy situation. I've never before made a heroic character - mine are all assassin/thieves/nazeem murderers. Wulf is a heroic khajiit who uses Resto magic, crossbows and one-handed. his psychology is simple. Force equal to threat. If you're facing a bandit, minimum force. If fighting a dragon, well time to bust out the flaming crossbow bolts! 

I've enjoyed roleplaying a heroic character - it adds a ton of depth to them.

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I think heroic characters get a bad rap sometimes - it's easy to think up why a baddy does evil, but how and why a person dedicates themselves to helping others is often very personal, and can make for amazing characters to roleplay if effort is put into it (which it sounds like you do!).

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Zonnonn]Zonnonn[/url] said:[/b]

The way I see it, a character must be running towards something or away from something to justify for frankly insane quests and adventures they endure. But while 10 different people can have the same goal, the differing in who they are as people results in their different actions.

But sometimes I like to make the trivial become anything but, because eventhough people don't like to admit it lifechanging decisions are made based on triviality. I'm pursuing the career I'm pursuing right now because I didn't have anything better to do and said fuck it, why not? And I can definitely see this happening for a character. Throwing your life on the line at every bend only comes from the very driven or the very lethargic. It's like in the military, from interviews and talking to people I've gathered that people join the military because they feel like they need to, or because they didn't have anything else better to do. And as the life of an adventurer is less restrictive than the military, I can really see this happening.

Hmmm, I think I repeated my point a few times there, but hopefully I got my point across - it takes a special kinda person to do what our characters do, but often they're words apart.

...

I think heroic characters get a bad rap sometimes - it's easy to think up why a baddy does evil, but how and why a person dedicates themselves to helping others is often very personal, and can make for amazing characters to roleplay if effort is put into it (which it sounds like you do!).

[/blockquote]

A few good points here I wanna run with. You mention the military, and in terms of societal outlooks there are a few of examples of races whose culture applies a certain expectation. For instance, the Bretons have a "questing culture" and society that encourages adventuring. These are people that can go from peasant to king. Also the Redguards, who they say, "their pride and fierce independence of spirit makes them more suitable as scouts or skirmishers, or as free-ranging heroes and adventurers, than as rank-and-file soldiers."

When it comes to occupation and career, I guess sometimes the ingrained cultural attitude can help inform how a character thinks and what they wish to aply themselves to.

Also, that last point about morally good heroic types getting a bad rep is quite true. As Wulf says, there is a lot of depth just from inner conflict. A villainous type has so much more freedom from lack of giving a shit, or simply believing the end justifis the means. For a more just character, something like the In My Time of Need quest can be a real source of conflict. Hint: Side with the hot chick ;)

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Zonnonn]Zonnonn[/url] said:[/b]

The way I see it, a character must be running towards something or away from something to justify for frankly insane quests and adventures they endure. But while 10 different people can have the same goal, the differing in who they are as people results in their different actions.

But sometimes I like to make the trivial become anything but, because eventhough people don't like to admit it lifechanging decisions are made based on triviality. I'm pursuing the career I'm pursuing right now because I didn't have anything better to do and said fuck it, why not? And I can definitely see this happening for a character. Throwing your life on the line at every bend only comes from the very driven or the very lethargic. It's like in the military, from interviews and talking to people I've gathered that people join the military because they feel like they need to, or because they didn't have anything else better to do. And as the life of an adventurer is less restrictive than the military, I can really see this happening.

Hmmm, I think I repeated my point a few times there, but hopefully I got my point across - it takes a special kinda person to do what our characters do, but often they're words apart.

...

I think heroic characters get a bad rap sometimes - it's easy to think up why a baddy does evil, but how and why a person dedicates themselves to helping others is often very personal, and can make for amazing characters to roleplay if effort is put into it (which it sounds like you do!).

[/blockquote]

A few good points here I wanna run with. You mention the military, and in terms of societal outlooks there are a few of examples of races whose culture applies a certain expectation. For instance, the Bretons have a "questing culture" and society that encourages adventuring. These are people that can go from peasant to king. Also the Redguards, who they say, "their pride and fierce independence of spirit makes them more suitable as scouts or skirmishers, or as free-ranging heroes and adventurers, than as rank-and-file soldiers."

When it comes to occupation and career, I guess sometimes the ingrained cultural attitude can help inform how a character thinks and what they wish to aply themselves to.

Also, that last point about morally good heroic types getting a bad rep is quite true. As Wulf says, there is a lot of depth just from inner conflict. A villainous type has so much more freedom from lack of giving a shit, or simply believing the end justifis the means. For a more just character, something like the In My Time of Need quest can be a real source of conflict. Hint: Side with the hot chick ;)

[/blockquote]

It is most definitely a more difficult playthrough as a good character.  From a game standpoint, this eliminates all the daedra quests, the Dark Brotherhood and the Theives Guild is out as well, particularly for a devoutely religious character.  Religion plays a large part in psychology of both good and evil characters. In the case of good characters trying to emulate the vitures each of the Nine (or Eight) Divines upholds can have an influence on psychology.  I have found being devoted to a single Divine to be even more interesting because you can even have rival issues and ethics with the other divines and their followers.  Being devoted to Dibella is far different than being devoted to Arkay.

Interesting discussion,

Rabyd One 

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Rabyd1]Rabyd One[/url] said:[/b]

It is most definitely a more difficult playthrough as a good character.  From a game standpoint, this eliminates all the daedra quests, the Dark Brotherhood and the Theives Guild is out as well, particularly for a devoutely religious character.  Religion plays a large part in psychology of both good and evil characters. In the case of good characters trying to emulate the vitures each of the Nine (or Eight) Divines upholds can have an influence on psychology.  I have found being devoted to a single Divine to be even more interesting because you can even have rival issues and ethics with the other divines and their followers.  Being devoted to Dibella is far different than being devoted to Arkay.

Interesting discussion,

Rabyd One 

[/blockquote]

More good points to respond to, I like where this conversation is heading! The psychology of religion is probably the subject of a great many books I've never read, but it's an interesting subject for all that, for who would willngly turn down a life of service to Dibella? If you're not Dibellan, you're doing it wrong. Or such would be my motto if I were doing it right. Maybe doing the wrong 'un is better?

A character who can emulate the virtues of a god, as you say, can make for a compelling playthrough and lead to lasting memories. Also, a character who constantly questions or is tested can also be fun. In those circumstances is avoiding the Daedric quests necessarily the right call to make? The overlaps between demons and gods can be quite pronounced. Mephala, sex and murder, could be seen as a dark shadow of Dibella. Hircine, the bloodsport, is almost the dark side of Kynareth. Perhaps confronting these rather than avoiding them is the way to acceptance of oneself and truly be blessed of one's chosen deity.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

A few good points here I wanna run with. You mention the military, and in terms of societal outlooks there are a few of examples of races whose culture applies a certain expectation. For instance, the Bretons have a "questing culture" and society that encourages adventuring. These are people that can go from peasant to king. Also the Redguards, who they say, "their pride and fierce independence of spirit makes them more suitable as scouts or skirmishers, or as free-ranging heroes and adventurers, than as rank-and-file soldiers."

When it comes to occupation and career, I guess sometimes the ingrained cultural attitude can help inform how a character thinks and what they wish to aply themselves to.

Also, that last point about morally good heroic types getting a bad rep is quite true. As Wulf says, there is a lot of depth just from inner conflict. A villainous type has so much more freedom from lack of giving a shit, or simply believing the end justifis the means. For a more just character, something like the In My Time of Need quest can be a real source of conflict. Hint: Side with the hot chick ;)

[/blockquote]

Sorry mate, been away for a few days without internet.

Culture is absolutely a big part of a character's psychology, the 'same person' (ie personality) born in Morrowind and Summerset Isles would be waaaay different, although obviously there would still be some ingrained stuff that stay. Maybe a Redguard has a gift for Illusion magic, but is encouraged down a military/warrior path. To make a really detailed character, looking at the race's culture, and the province's culture (if they're different) should be considered and compared for similarities/differences to create a crackin' backstory, as it's a big impact in how they were treated and viewed the world from an early age.

And yeah, that's one of my favourite quests in the game (eventhough I think its annoyingly that it isn't more expanded), it really sets the tone for the character given that it can be done really early. Although if a pretty barmaid asks me out of the blue to come to her room and 'talk'... yeah imma side with her every time :P

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

More good points to respond to, I like where this conversation is heading! The psychology of religion is probably the subject of a great many books I've never read, but it's an interesting subject for all that, for who would willngly turn down a life of service to Dibella? If you're not Dibellan, you're doing it wrong. Or such would be my motto if I were doing it right. Maybe doing the wrong 'un is better?

A character who can emulate the virtues of a god, as you say, can make for a compelling playthrough and lead to lasting memories. Also, a character who constantly questions or is tested can also be fun. In those circumstances is avoiding the Daedric quests necessarily the right call to make? The overlaps between demons and gods can be quite pronounced. Mephala, sex and murder, could be seen as a dark shadow of Dibella. Hircine, the bloodsport, is almost the dark side of Kynareth. Perhaps confronting these rather than avoiding them is the way to acceptance of oneself and truly be blessed of one's chosen deity.

[/blockquote]

I have always thought the kind fo dual pull characters were interesting to play.  A merchant who struggles to be honorable in commerce devoted to Zenithar finds himself tempted by Clavicus Vile.  Julianos /Hermaeus Mora is another one that could have some interesting psychological effects as a chacrter struggles between two options in dealing with how knowedge should be aquired and used.  I felt Oblivion hit one with Merunes Dagon vs Akatosh.  A person devoted to a divine that is being tempted by the dark side coresponding Daedra would be a wonderful role playing expereince as the effect of this struggle would create interesting changes in the psychology of the character.

That said there are far more Daedra than divines so the different machups could be interesting.  What happens when you have a divine on one shoulder telling you one things in one ear but two or three Daedra doing the same at the same time in the other ear.  A character Sheogorath would be proud of.  Mephala is not the only counter to Dibella for instance, there is also Sanguine.

Rabyd One

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Zonnonn]Zonnonn[/url] said:[/b]

Sorry mate, been away for a few days without internet.

Culture is absolutely a big part of a character's psychology, the 'same person' (ie personality) born in Morrowind and Summerset Isles would be waaaay different, although obviously there would still be some ingrained stuff that stay. Maybe a Redguard has a gift for Illusion magic, but is encouraged down a military/warrior path. To make a really detailed character, looking at the race's culture, and the province's culture (if they're different) should be considered and compared for similarities/differences to create a crackin' backstory, as it's a big impact in how they were treated and viewed the world from an early age.

And yeah, that's one of my favourite quests in the game (eventhough I think its annoyingly that it isn't more expanded), it really sets the tone for the character given that it can be done really early. Although if a pretty barmaid asks me out of the blue to come to her room and 'talk'... yeah imma side with her every time :P

[/blockquote]

Shitty northern broadband, right? The servers are run on coal up there :P I use humour to cover the fact I have nothing else to respond to seeing as your points were so concise that all I can do is agree with them. I like your priorities too, Saadia is a no-brainer :D

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Rabyd1]Rabyd One[/url] said:[/b]

I have always thought the kind fo dual pull characters were interesting to play.  A merchant who struggles to be honorable in commerce devoted to Zenithar finds himself tempted by Clavicus Vile.  Julianos /Hermaeus Mora is another one that could have some interesting psychological effects as a chacrter struggles between two options in dealing with how knowedge should be aquired and used.  I felt Oblivion hit one with Merunes Dagon vs Akatosh.  A person devoted to a divine that is being tempted by the dark side coresponding Daedra would be a wonderful role playing expereince as the effect of this struggle would create interesting changes in the psychology of the character.

That said there are far more Daedra than divines so the different machups could be interesting.  What happens when you have a divine on one shoulder telling you one things in one ear but two or three Daedra doing the same at the same time in the other ear.  A character Sheogorath would be proud of.  Mephala is not the only counter to Dibella for instance, there is also Sanguine.

Rabyd One

[/blockquote]

We speak the same tongue :) Clavicus Vile is a good call for Dibby's darkness. I like to think that if there are sixteen Princes and eight Gods, that each Aderic spoke of the wheel is surrounded by two voids of Oblivion. That way each God is actually a three-part entity. If that makes sense. From an RP standpoint it can be fun to identify who those shadows are and somehow incorporate them into the gameplay.

Not much for me to add as far as the extent of what creates such a psychological state of characters. All were very good points that I wholeheartedly agree with.

For my character, James, a former knight in Daggerfall, a few events happened that led to the demise of people he was close to (so specific, I know :p). He had always been driven to honor his family. However, his codes, morals, and creed made him feel held back on both the social realm as well as the combat side of things. "Honor", the virtue that his fellow Breton family had practically raised him on, wasn't meant for the good of the people. It was to raise their social status and make them appear charitable and noble. So with this difference of thinking growing in James, he naturally had a conflict with the patriarch of the Sterling family; his father. This combined with his preference for fighting dirty just didn't do well as far as keeping his virtues aligned with his family's. 

And when he does get stripped of his titles and exiled, James embraces this person that he had been concealing for as long as he could remember. He crafted own "creed", which is to do what must be done in order to restore his family wealth and presence. This time, in a foreign land, filled with plenty of opportunities to fill his pocket and redeem himself for the terrible mistake he made back home. 

I enjoy chaotic-neutral characters way too much :p

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Rabyd1]Rabyd One[/url] said:[/b]

The Blacksmith's Daughter's psychology is the whole essence of her build.  The trauma of losing her family, being a sex slave for some bandits for a time and then being thrust into the dangerous world of Skyrim creates as person who starts out trying to do the right thing but the darker path gets followed more and more because of rage and anger.  She has developed pyromania mostly because she see fire as a cleansing agent that detroys evil.  The thing is this has become something she sees as a battle against evil by being evil (althoguh she would never call it that).  She would call it fighting fire with fire but it ammounts to the same thing.  She has no problems with murder or destruciton as long as the final goal is reached - elimination of the Empire in Skyrim and the destruction of the Thalmor.  If she roasts some bandits along the way so much the better.

I don't know I guess I have always considered the psychology of character as a major ocnsideration.  It is what makes the role play fun to me.  

Rabyd One  

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Sorry for the late reply, but this character sounds interesting. The concept of a character letting their evil nature take over has always been my cup of tea since it makes the most sense. Fire as a cleaning agent is something I personally love because my first Skyrim character was a Pyromancer who thought the same because "fire destroys everything, but at the same time begins everything a rebirth." Your characters seem to align with Potemus, my character, a whole lot, especially with the, has no problem with murder and destruction as long as the final goal is reached.

I think a good one to do a discussion for is character progression. A character doesn't realistically stay the same after a journey, especially one like in Skyrim. You will eventually change your ideas, morality, beliefs, and even your relationships over time.