Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Debate: Legitimacy of Stereotypes?

• Deleted Member

  
   

  July 17, 2013

  I would argue that being uneducated is not the same thing as being stupid. For example, in the real world, there are people with doctorates that are complete idiots. They give it away by the choices they make, but they have degrees. 

  In the reverse side, some people who don't have high education, can MacGyver things to work,  or have just plain common sense(which is not so common) 

  So being uneducated is not the same as being stupid. 

  Nords being fond of mead? Yes. It's part of their culture, and I'd wager that the streams in Skyrim aren't the cleanest, what with animals and who knows what else running around.

  The process of making mead would kill the germs and other junk, purifying the drink.  

  I would argue that being uneducated is not the same thing as being stupid. For example, in the real world, there are people with doctorates that are complete idiots. They give it away by the choices they make, but they have degrees. 

  In the reverse side, some people who don't have high education, can MacGyver things to work,  or have just plain common sense(which is not so common) 

  So being uneducated is not the same as being stupid. 

  Nords being fond of mead? Yes. It's part of their culture, and I'd wager that the streams in Skyrim aren't the cleanest, what with animals and who knows what else running around.

  The process of making mead would kill the germs and other junk, purifying the drink.  

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  Member
   

  July 17, 2013

  Yeah, that's what I said (uneducated=/=unintelligent) :P

  Yeah, that's what I said (uneducated=/=unintelligent) :P
• Deleted Member

  
   

  July 17, 2013

  Oh yeah

  I would wager that book stores are few because of oral tradition. Like songs from the Bards College. 

  Oh yeah

  I would wager that book stores are few because of oral tradition. Like songs from the Bards College. 

• Kynareth

  
   

  July 17, 2013

  The lack of bookstores is a very interesting observation, as they have been in every game since Daggerfall.  The two major collections of books are found in the Ysmir Collective at the College of Winterhold, and then the Bards College. While training in actual instrumentation occurs at the college, a bard is not a bard without verse, which I think takes a fair amount of study.  A Nord's appreciation for such art indicates a fair amount of education I think.  A culture that seeks to express itself artistically is far from an uneducated culture.

  Just thinking out loud, but is there evidence that the Empire exploited the natural Nordic tendencies to warfare and filled their legions with Nord soldiers?  Some could argue that this was brilliant management of one of the Empire's provinces, but at what expense to the Nordic people?

  The lack of bookstores is a very interesting observation, as they have been in every game since Daggerfall.  The two major collections of books are found in the Ysmir Collective at the College of Winterhold, and then the Bards College. While training in actual instrumentation occurs at the college, a bard is not a bard without verse, which I think takes a fair amount of study.  A Nord's appreciation for such art indicates a fair amount of education I think.  A culture that seeks to express itself artistically is far from an uneducated culture.

  Just thinking out loud, but is there evidence that the Empire exploited the natural Nordic tendencies to warfare and filled their legions with Nord soldiers?  Some could argue that this was brilliant management of one of the Empire's provinces, but at what expense to the Nordic people?

• Mr.

  

  Member
   

  July 17, 2013

  But at the same time, the lack of education restricts the knowledge, thus leading most of the people to becoming ignorants, and, the Nord people, traditionally persistent and proud, would hardly give up their position in given matter.

  Oral tradition sucks. Can you imagine how many things are distorted?

  But at the same time, the lack of education restricts the knowledge, thus leading most of the people to becoming ignorants, and, the Nord people, traditionally persistent and proud, would hardly give up their position in given matter.

  Oral tradition sucks. Can you imagine how many things are distorted?

• Kyrielle Atrinati

  

  Member
   

  July 17, 2013

  Yes, I definitely believe that stereotypes hold a legitimate claim in Elder Scrolls.

  Let's take the Khajiit for instance.  Quite often, they are depicted as thieves and liars, and more often than not, they uphold that stereotype.  However, I would consider this less a stereotype and more a difference in perspective.  Khajiit do not perceive ownership in the same way other races do.  If it is something lying around somewhere, and no one is obviously using it, then the Khajiit thinks it a waste to leave such an item out where it's not used.  Should the Khajiit have use for it, he will pick up and take it with him.  In Elsweyr, this is not a problem.  In other provinces, however, this is most certainly stealing.  

  Also consider that lies are the staple of the Khajiit way of life.  It's foolish to be honest to everyone, why, if they were, then their clans and families would be in perpetual danger from other clans.  There are secrets every Khajiit holds from their clan, and they tell these to no one.  So, in order to divert attention from this topic, they become used to lying, omitting, speaking around the truth--telling it without actually telling it.  To other Khajiit, this is normal.  To everyone else, this is lying.

  However, what I've described above is all at once stereotype, truth, and misunderstanding.  All stereotypes have a grounding of truth to them, but they are often a result of misunderstanding, and misinterpreting, the target race's culture.

  Yes, I definitely believe that stereotypes hold a legitimate claim in Elder Scrolls.

  Let's take the Khajiit for instance.  Quite often, they are depicted as thieves and liars, and more often than not, they uphold that stereotype.  However, I would consider this less a stereotype and more a difference in perspective.  Khajiit do not perceive ownership in the same way other races do.  If it is something lying around somewhere, and no one is obviously using it, then the Khajiit thinks it a waste to leave such an item out where it's not used.  Should the Khajiit have use for it, he will pick up and take it with him.  In Elsweyr, this is not a problem.  In other provinces, however, this is most certainly stealing.  

  Also consider that lies are the staple of the Khajiit way of life.  It's foolish to be honest to everyone, why, if they were, then their clans and families would be in perpetual danger from other clans.  There are secrets every Khajiit holds from their clan, and they tell these to no one.  So, in order to divert attention from this topic, they become used to lying, omitting, speaking around the truth--telling it without actually telling it.  To other Khajiit, this is normal.  To everyone else, this is lying.

  However, what I've described above is all at once stereotype, truth, and misunderstanding.  All stereotypes have a grounding of truth to them, but they are often a result of misunderstanding, and misinterpreting, the target race's culture.

• Bryn

  

  Member
   

  July 17, 2013

  ^ No one can top this...

  ^ No one can top this...
• Deleted Member

  
   

  July 17, 2013

  The dude just said that most Nords can read and write. What more does a farmer or a hunter need? Knowledge isn't restricted. 

  Oral traditions do not suck! Why would things get distorted? why wouldn't the story be the same if the story is taught the same? If it's somebody's job to remember stuff, they're gonna remember it. 

  The dude just said that most Nords can read and write. What more does a farmer or a hunter need? Knowledge isn't restricted. 

  Oral traditions do not suck! Why would things get distorted? why wouldn't the story be the same if the story is taught the same? If it's somebody's job to remember stuff, they're gonna remember it. 

• Mr.

  

  Member
   

  July 17, 2013

  The problem is when the farmer suddenly becomes rich and influent, and start screwing up with all the system. Brazil is something like this. Don't come to Brazil. It sucks.

  Oral traditions sucks. One passes a story to his son. His son don't pay attention. One day, curious, because he actually begins to reflect about that story, goes and ask his father to tell the story again.

  However, time passes. Memory fails, and the mind is really difficult to understand, so I don't want to talk much about something that I don't understand. Yet.

  My point is, people understand things in different ways, and sometimes, they may not even realize, but they end up changing something, sooner or later, either to what they would like it to be, or due to a memory fail.

  Time distorts history. It is known. And if this ain't recorded at a book, it distorts even more. But in either way, it is distorted.

  The problem is when the farmer suddenly becomes rich and influent, and start screwing up with all the system. Brazil is something like this. Don't come to Brazil. It sucks.

  Oral traditions sucks. One passes a story to his son. His son don't pay attention. One day, curious, because he actually begins to reflect about that story, goes and ask his father to tell the story again.

  However, time passes. Memory fails, and the mind is really difficult to understand, so I don't want to talk much about something that I don't understand. Yet.

  My point is, people understand things in different ways, and sometimes, they may not even realize, but they end up changing something, sooner or later, either to what they would like it to be, or due to a memory fail.

  Time distorts history. It is known. And if this ain't recorded at a book, it distorts even more. But in either way, it is distorted.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  July 17, 2013

  It's not just one person, there are masters who learned when they were young who teach their apprentices when they are young. 

  It doesn't get distort it unless it is deliberately distorted. oral traditions aren't like playing telephone.  they're serious business that people hold in reverence. they wouldn't listen with half attention. They would hang on every word taking it to heart. 

  It's not just one person, there are masters who learned when they were young who teach their apprentices when they are young. 

  It doesn't get distort it unless it is deliberately distorted. oral traditions aren't like playing telephone.  they're serious business that people hold in reverence. they wouldn't listen with half attention. They would hang on every word taking it to heart.