Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 25, 2014 6:36 PM EST

  1) don't believe everything you read in a tabloid...
  2) boo-hoo, political power struggles leave people dead. Welcome to the world.
• Veloth the Prophet

  

  • 641 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 6:50 PM EST

  Great reasoning on why someone like that should be supported 

• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 6:52 PM EST

  His doctrines are to uphold the law and defend the Empire. His Empire, his laws, that be built upon war, murder, and destruction. He is a very human god with human interests in heart, and almost all of Tiber and Talos' criticism comes from Elves.

• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 6:54 PM EST

  I stated no opinion or expectation of Talos or Tiber Septim, only what the Lore tells us about his life and conquests.

  Though your statement of "So what if he was a genocidal commander." leaves me deeply horrified and disturbed, regardless of the context.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 25, 2014 6:55 PM EST

  I support him because he isn't a wuss.
• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 25, 2014 6:56 PM EST

  Every conqueror ever killed a lot of people.
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 6:56 PM EST

  i.e. my guy had a bigger dick. Neener, neener, neener.

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 6:57 PM EST

  Interesting discussion, but I will withhold my views so it doesn't devolve into an argument lasting for days with Shor.
  
  
  For reference, Dark Elves and Nords are my least favorite races.
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:00 PM EST

  I do believe this is the right = might mentality that has served so many so well in both fiction and non-fiction.

• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:01 PM EST

  I will surmise that your favorite races are probably Redguards, High Elves, and or Khajiit?

  Lemme know how close I was.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 25, 2014 7:02 PM EST

  A man is not measured by his genitalia, but by his actions. What is wrong with you...
• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:03 PM EST

  Rather accurate. Bretons are also up there.
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:07 PM EST

  Well, now I can't tell if you understand metaphor or not. I'm thinking not. Or you're feigning some form of honor or nobility in your turn of phrase to try and come out on top of this zombie horse discussion when you've made you views pretty clear and summarized by "My guy has the bigger dick, I win."

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:27 PM EST

  What's wrong with there being a very human god, particularly in a pantheon? What else could he really be, anyway? In any account of his "creation", it was by humans so that makes perfect sense.
  
  Should every government following a war be dismantled because it was preceded by violence? Upholding of the law is a pretty reasonable stance it seems, and certainly no worse than the Argonians or Dunmer enslaving each other, or the "cultural superiority" of the Altmer. In fact pretty much everything standing in TES is built on bloodshed.
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:46 PM EST

  People are under the misapprehension that I hate Talos and the Empire when my views are fairly opposite.

  My points are Talos is a human god, pushing a human agenda, and created a human empire... by subjugating, toppling, and destroying elves.

  I'm against imperialism, the conquest and subjugation of populations for exploitation.

  I'm not against the human endeavor, Lorkhan, or the goals Lorkhan wanted others to achieve, which is the very opposite of what most mer want. There will always be conflict and I'm not against conflict. I think people are wrong for glorifying a warlord who lied, cheated, schemed, and murdered for no reason but his own selfish desires to rule.

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:49 PM EST

  Still not clear. You don't hate Tskos, but you also don't think he should be a divine, is kinda what I'm getting.
  
  What do we have to confirm that Tiber's campaign was purely selfishly motivated? I've dug a little into Alessia's lore, but not so much his.
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 7:53 PM EST

  I did not say that or suggest anything of the sort.

  For his motivations check out his page on UESP, they'll link most of the books about him towards the bottom. Read through, especially the Arcturian Heresy and books about him before becoming emperor.

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 8:00 PM EST

  Well you said you don't hate Talos, but that he shouldn't be glorified for being "a warlord who..." That's what I'm extrapolating from. Is it that Lorkhan should be the one worshipped rather than Talos/Tiber?
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 8:08 PM EST

  There's a world of difference between praising Talos as the savior of mankind and an exemplary hero of whom all men should admire and stating he's a warlord who conquered the world for his own selfish ambition and accidently became a god during those pursuits but still recognizing that he became a god, and not just any god but the reason we're all here to begin with.

  Lorkhan's motivations are far more obscured and there's plenty of room for interpretations there, though he sure as fuck wasn't a "lets play nice and get along" sort of guy either.
• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 8:13 PM EST

  In my mind that further reinforces that Tiber/Talos/Mantling Trio had no intention of becoming a divine, but that Lorkhan /chose/ him/them in order to keep screwing with the elves(and other reasons, probably, but mostly that). So it seems more like Lorkhan using that accumulated power to rebrand himself than a germicidal conquered doing the same thing.
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 8:30 PM EST

  Wulfharth was Shezzarine, and he was surprised by Zurin and Tiber's treachery. And Shezzarine are the closest you could conceivably get to Lorkhan's will acting upon the world.

  To my ears, you're saying Lorkhan got a Dragonborn and Nibenese mage to trick himself into becoming himself without himself knowing?

• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 8:37 PM EST

  ;—; what I knew is not what I thought I knew, and I don't know what I know.
  
  Yes? It actually makes sense to me that if Lorkhan's will was present in Tamriel, he'd use it to manipulate the pantheon like that. Maybe not all that inception stuff, but I think it's fair to say that Tiber at least didn't know what would happen. He seems like a conduit, rather than an instigator.
• Deleted Member

  
   

  November 25, 2014 8:41 PM EST

  Why would Lorkhan and Auri-El be the same person as Shezzarrine and Dragonborn in Tiber?
• Borommakot

  

  • 1217 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 8:44 PM EST

  You mean in Talos? I don't think Auriel has much to do with Talos once he's Talos and not Tiber.
• Tom

  

  • 624 posts
   

  November 25, 2014 8:45 PM EST

  Shor, you've had the discussion numerous times with myself and others in and out oft he Lore Group, all of us explaining enantiamorph but you ask the same questions, dismiss the same books, and walk away with a confused comment and a remark about how stupid lore is.