Forums » The Lounge

• Henson

  

  • 490 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:01 AM EDT

  Your presupposing that one must play a build. I look at character builds as works, much like a painting ... a presentation in the most basic sense.

  Have you physically played every single build that you hit the like button on?

  Change the word from play to create, which I thought was implied...

• Vazgen

  

  • 1483 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:03 AM EDT

  Henson, my theory is that the mod-based builds use different terminology that is unfamiliar and strange for non-users, which is why people have trouble evaluating these builds. Still, there were no mod-based builds to prove that they can be as aspiring and great as not mod-based.

• asgard

  

  • 19 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:08 AM EDT

  They're not all bad builds; some just don't strike the fancy of the majority (niche builds, if you like), which is why I referred to them as grey-area builds. Some of my favorite builds are barely Recognized.

• Shimazu

  

  • 209 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:09 AM EDT

  Bryn, to answer point 2. GRAPHICS!

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  • 1124 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:11 AM EDT

  No, but I've played Skyrim enough to be able to evaluate a build's gameplay and be familiar with (essentially) every mechanic in every build. I do see your point however, but I see builds as more interactive than paintings or other works of arts.
• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:16 AM EDT

  I would say that a character build in the CB group is, in its essence, a character a writer would build and shape for his/her book. And writing is an art form, as good as any other.

  It can also be viewed as how a game developer would create a character for his/her game. 

• Curse Never Dying

  

  • 485 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:18 AM EDT

  I agree with Henson. Mod or not, if the author has put in the hard work to present readers with a solid well presented build, it deserves recognition.
• asgard

  

  • 19 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:18 AM EDT

  There is a restaurant called Modern Toilet that serves food which resembles feces served on latrines. Should I go to their doorstep and shout at people that it's a shit restaurant (ha!), just because I hate the concept?

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:19 AM EDT

  YAY! THE ONE THING I DO NOT GIVE A SINGLE F*** ABOUT! AWESOME!!!
• Henson

  

  • 490 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:24 AM EDT

  My point is they (builds) can be interactive but as a site full of posts, no one is forced to play them. Builds should be taken for what they are at the BASE level, which is an overall presentation of a member's experience using a race, skills, and gameplay intertwined with role play and anything unique they want to add.

  Members who then decide to criticize and "bash" a build based simply on the possibility of extending that experience to their own, yet cannot, is silly. The ability or non-ability to play a build should hold no merit on the build itself nor denigrate the one who posted the build.

  Take my Dragoon, just so I leave someone else's build out:

  Would the concept and presentation of this build be so lowered due to the fact that I could have been a PC player who included the SkyRe mod? Someone who would look at that build (and I am not saying it is super awesome, just that it seemed to get the most feedback out of my own work) and focus on the mod is really doing a disservice to the building community by not looking at the whole picture.

• Henson

  

  • 490 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:25 AM EDT

  I wish I could this concise. Well said.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:28 AM EDT

  This is the reason why I put this discussion up. If you had used SkyRe, in the state that this community seems to have had, both you and I, Henson, could probably agree that The Dragoon wouldn't have been where it is.

  But now it has reached a point where I am glad I did post and started the discussion. It seems that I was wrong about this community being completely biased. And I am glad that I was proven wrong.

  It all comes down to whether or not the Character Build is a good Character Build, simply put.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:38 AM EDT

  Yeah, well said Ben C. If it is not a character that doesn't work with Skyrim and is completely wrong lore wise, it shouldn't be around here. But if it still works, even with mods supporting the build to make it more creative and unique, then I hope you still would give it a like if it was good enough. 

  A good background and lore would still make a good build, even if has a so called "flawed". Take The Town Drunk for example. It is a fun build that works because it has a humorous background and gameplay to it. The gameplay itself is probably not what most people are looking for, but it recieved 83 likes because it was a fun build. Useless, and probably boring, to most people I'd assume, but still a good and fun build, because they read and enjoyed the read. I wonder how many of those who liked it actually played it. 

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  • 1124 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 11:38 AM EDT

  It shouldn't be focused on, at least not as much as it seems to be, I agree. But the option to play the build is always there, unless, of course, mods are involved (or DLCs, for some). To me, it's not a matter of will I play this build, so much as a matter of can I play this build. Mods should be a factor when critiquing a build, they themselves are factors that change the game. But I agree that they shouldn't be the sole factor of critiquing the build.
  
  I also wholeheartedly agree that bashing a build solely for using a mod(s) is not only rude and unhelpful, it's actually against the rules (negative feedback must be constructive.
• Shimazu

  

  • 209 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 3:16 AM EDT

  so you don't give a SINGLE f**k about graphics ? If a game you're looking forward to came out, and the aesthetics were atrocious... you wouldn't care?

• Cærys Nuul

  

  • 116 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 4:29 AM EDT

  I think we are kinda missing the point in the argument so far.

  The real thing to look at here is the community to which you are presenting the build, not whether or not it should be "ok" or free of criticism.  The reality is that this community bases build ranking on likes.  The reality is that this community, by and large, is composed of console players and other folks who aren't big fans of mods.

  Whether or not a build "should" be considered good, ignores the reality that it is going to have to be SOO good that all of that 14% (does anyone have a source on that number?) give it a +1 to enable it to stick around.  That is a real big challenge, but if you want to try, no one is stopping you.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 4:46 AM EDT

  Still, this should have nothing to do with which platform you play on. The community is all about presenting a good Character Build, which is composed mainly about four things: Presentation (grammar, formatting), background story, connected lore and Gameplay. Three out of four of these has nothing to do with what platform you play on. It is still a Character Build and should be viewed as one.

  If people are looking at it the right way, they would understand a mod based build if they gave it a chance. It's not really rocket science. But it is of worth to say that up to this point, supposedly, there hasn't been any good enough builds posted that made the cut.

  The challenge for someone that posts a build with a Gameplay part that is different (in this case due to mods) is to make all parts very good for it to be believable and understandable, even for those who do not fully understand it. The reality is that no matter what platform a build is made for, it is still a Character Build and should be viewed as that only.

  Try to see what the Build is instead of blindly say it is might be bad because it is based on something you cannot play (I generalize here, not pointed at you Caerys). Because, lets face, none of us have played every single build that was posted in this Community. 

  Also, some readers of builds wouldn't play builds that uses glitches or bugs, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't like a build. I did that for several builds. I would never play them, but I still liked them.

  And no, 14% is a bad number. It is supposedly the official number of sales of the game for the PC. But it doesn't include the massive amount of downloaded games. Hate those or not, they are most likely still part of this community. 

• Shimazu

  

  • 209 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 5:01 AM EDT

  I believe Ben refers to the initial opening sales stated in articles which include this.

  I think this is a misrepresentation as for one, this doesn't include digital sales ! The majority of PC sales are done digitally, and since the legendary editions release, and the steam sales. I imagine this figure will be around double what has been said here.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 5:06 AM EDT

  Yeah, You are correct! I forgot to mention the digital sales. 

• Cærys Nuul

  

  • 116 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 5:57 AM EDT

  Awesome!  I was never sure where that number came from... However, it seems now we can use 80/20 to refer to the split.

• Shimazu

  

  • 209 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 6:00 AM EDT

  Well it is different, it's 866,400 people different. Can you link me to those numbers? 

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 22, 2013 6:22 AM EDT

  And still countless of hidden PC gamers. But yeah, still good to know the official numbers.

• Cærys Nuul

  

  • 116 posts
   

  August 23, 2013 12:47 PM EDT

  Dude, if you didn't buy the game... you probably shouldn't count. 

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 23, 2013 1:31 PM EDT

  I bought the game, if you meant that :-P
• Premier Eden

  

  • 152 posts
   

  August 23, 2013 1:58 PM EDT

  I support you man! Sock it to those console peasants with your builds!