Forums » The Lounge

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:42 AM EDT

  To you maybe. I don't get why you don't think other people than you could give a good build a chance, even if they cannot play it? How is that so hard? xD

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:42 AM EDT

  To be honest, I dont get it either. The only real reason I dont get a gaming PC is
  
  1. No money
  
  2. I find it easier to control using a controller (no I will not hook up an xbox controller to play on PC, if playing with an xbox is easier... Why not just get an xbox? *mini-rant over*)
  
  3. No PC eclusives interest me or we have something excatly like it...
• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:44 AM EDT

  Yes they do, but the majority are not the only ones that exist. Others exist and would like a fair chance, too. Not everyone wants to be subjected to the majority will all the time!
• Vazgen

  

  • 1483 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:44 AM EDT

  I think so, asgard. There are 6000+ members on the site, the 14% is 840+ more than enough for passing the 20 likes margin even if only the small minority logs in usually.

• Morta

  

  • 33 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:46 AM EDT

  I am not angry, Bryn. I respect your opinion about mod-based builds, I would do the same if I were on console/I wouldn't like mods. But the others, who complain on mod-based builds just because they can't/don't mod the game are the ones that I don't understand. For example, I don't meet the system requirements for a game (therefore I cannot play it) I don't start complaining about it on every video of that particular game. Why can't everyone be like that on the Skyrim Blog? If you don't like a specific build, you leave it alone. Don't start bashing it just because it's based on something that you don't like. In fact, I want peace, but those people ruin it with their complaints.

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:48 AM EDT

  Point to you, my good sir. But I still think that if everyone could just see a build for only a character build, and try to understand it, even with any weird circumstances, then it is fair.

  For example: I really do not like glitching and using bugs to your own advantage. That is just how I am programmed, since long back (some will now comment on that mods are like cheating, but meh xD). I just don't like to use something that a developer/programmer missed to my own advantage, so to say.

  But, if a build sounds cool, I still fully enjoy to read those builds that are based on those ideas, and they receive my like. Even if I would never play it. 

• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:50 AM EDT

  Man, come on. The mod alters the gameplay. But the Character is still part of Skyrim and its lore. And that is why we are here. 

  Some people might enjoy a good character biography and how that character fares in another slight version of Skyrim that you enjoy, even if some of the gameplay itself is based on a mod... Any good Character builder tries to stay true to the lore. So what if some uses mods.

  I'm sorry, but yeah, wow :P

• asgard

  

  • 19 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:50 AM EDT

  As I already mentioned, a quality build, even if it is PC-only, is better for the site than no build at all, and I struggle to think how anyone can argue with that. The only thing I think should change is to force builders to indicate platform restrictions in the build's title so console players will have advance warning.

• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:53 AM EDT

  Precisely! What scares me the most is even if the mod build is worthy to be Legendary, it will not all because like you just said, that 1 requirement out of 4, does not appeal to the others. It would be easier to prohibit mod builds from being established!
• Tompa

  

  • 51 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:53 AM EDT

  But shouldn't PC players have a console name warning then? We are still part of the community. A spoiler in the beginning of the build should be enough for everyone. Anything else is just bs in my humble opinion... :P

• Vazgen

  

  • 1483 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 9:54 AM EDT

  Agreed Tompa, same as me. The thing with SkyRe and similar mods is that you use unfamiliar terminology in a build. The builds that use weird glitches still work in the confines of the same vanilla gameplay system everyone is familiar with. The overhaul mod-based build requires some insight in the mod to make its features understandable which becomes an advertising of a mod itself. Without it it looks like using some custom short forms for perk/skill etc. names without documenting them everywhere. Like writing MM for Muffled Movement all over the build

• Henson

  

  • 490 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:00 AM EDT

  Since WHEN at ANY point of the Character Building group has it been a criteria for the integrity of a build to not include mods?

  I can tell you right now a few things:

  1. Thank you very much for this thoughtful post. "Even if the standards of a good CB group build are met, be it formatting, grammar and plain good writing, should you really stomp on the build anyway? I think many of those remaining 86% would, just because they can." is EXACTLY what you should be underlining and making bold here. The answer is no and I am sorry to whoever was on the receiving end of such ridiculous scrutiny all because of a mod.

  2. Where, in all of the Group Information pages and Character Building Guide pages, does it say you cannot use mods? It doesn't. Before anyone brings up anything, how about we, uh, read the rules?

  3. The criteria for liking a build is on the member's personal opinion. Obviously, as stated from Bryn, if he can't personally play a build, he would not hit the like button. I can see the reason for that, but absolutely should not be in any way the mindset behind what constitutes a build actually being posted or not.

  4. Looks like most people covered the DLC argument. When PS3 players were sitting around without DLC, I personally even posted some builds containing the extra content. I put spoiler tags at the top, same as a PC poster would do for mods. It is no different ... Should we take down builds that contain DLC because not everyone paid the money for the DLC? No.

  5. Who gives a shit? Mod builds might not get a lot of likes due to the smaller PC user base, which in the end, likes don't mean a thing.

  6. Builds are pieces of work that members work hard to produce. I loved making character builds and I know what it means to put some fun and hard work into it given I was a console player. PC posters who include mods are no different. Using a mod is actually a testament to even more creativity as it brings in either their own or someone else's creative mind and gives the character build a unique flavor.

  7. If a build that includes mods gets posted, don't reply with your negative comment. Look at the build as a whole and respect the process. Like it on its merits for what it is.

  Why type so much? This should be the last time we ever discuss this because it is so ridiculous someone had to put up a discussion due to someone's build getting bashed for having mods. Sure, the build in question was not great in terms of content and was taken down, but it surely wasn't because it included mods.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:01 AM EDT

  It simply comes down to people liking it... A person disliking or bashing a build means nothing to others who do like it. If the build didnt survive, blame it on presentation or lack of interest, which makes mod users equal in the blame... Simple
• Todd

  

  • 557 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:03 AM EDT

  I'm not going to reply with any long message. Instead, I'll just say that I 100% agree with Henson.
• asgard

  

  • 19 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:04 AM EDT

  That is fallacious, because 20 likes from 840 views is far more difficult to achieve than 20 likes from 6000 views. The 20 likes threshold was established with the total population in mind.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:05 AM EDT

  lazy :P
• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:08 AM EDT

  Yes but my point is, who asks console players for negative input? It's always "I can't play!" I'd prefer "I can't personally play this build, but XYZ..." And other constructive criticism can be said. I read video comment for that mod and honestly, it's poisonous. I just can't see why it's justified to bash people who play differently from you. Once again, excuse me if I'm coming off negatively, but trying to keep this a console only community will not reflect well.
• Vazgen

  

  • 1483 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:10 AM EDT

  I think it was established before the member count reached that large numbers. Still, 840 is still a lot, if 20 people of these 840 don't bother to like the build its not a good build to them. There are a lot of builds on this site that I won't be able to enjoy, one being Obsidian Sentinel, for I use Unofficial Patch that fixes the Restoration and other exploits. That doesn't stop me from recognizing the amount of work put in a build. Sadly the mod-based builds that I saw were not very different from those half-thought builds being posted and deleted here on the regular basis. If good amount of work was put in the build it will have my like, even if I won't be able to play it - it's that simple for me.

• Shimazu

  

  • 209 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:10 AM EDT

  Brilliantly said.

• asgard

  

  • 19 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:13 AM EDT

  That is also fallacious. The Bosamu happens to be a really kickass, unique build, so obviously it won't struggle at all. The issue here is that, if you have a build that is borderline deserving of being preserved, it'll be far easier to avoid the chopping block if it's not a PC-only build.

• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:13 AM EDT

  Right, so it can be fair to not have anyone "waste their time" reading a build they cannot play, and refrain from negativity and whining. It is bad that there is an argument about this at all, but sometimes, difference is unacceptable. And lol Tompa true that xD give PC players a heads-up too!
• Vazgen

  

  • 1483 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:14 AM EDT

  I agree with 99% of your post Henson. The only thing I'd argue is about likes not mattering. Its true after 20, but before that the build is at constant threat of deletion. To be honest, I didn't see a mod-based build passing the 20 likes margin before.

• Bryn

  

  • 1913 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:15 AM EDT

  You know this rule was created when we had a few thousand less members right?
• Dr. Tonal Architect, Ph.D

  

  • 14 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:21 AM EDT

  And that's all, Vazgen :) you actually accept that 1 minuscule requirement will not hold you back from acknowledging a good build. You're right, most mod builds are not done well, and I believe they need to be cut. But there are other build like those (for console) that just lay low until Deathmatch with 4 or 5 likes. With the builds I play on this site, I customize the perks to fit Skyre, because it's so expansive. But that's why I can applaud the efforts of someone trying to use Skyre in their builds, because there's just so much! That takes some effort, but unfortunately, some who just can't use it would rather kill it.
• asgard

  

  • 19 posts
   

  August 21, 2013 10:21 AM EDT

  Activity is what matters, but I don't see how that is relevant. The issue here is that, given two builds of similar (passable) quality, the regular build will have a far easier time of dodging the headsman's axe, which isn't fair.