Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

HoonDing: The Unyielding Serpent

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  May 3, 2015

  Probably worthy of it's own discussion actually mate, it is a compex piece of lore. However, if you don't start a topic my interpretation lies in The Song of Pelinal:

  "... and left you to gather sinew with my other half, who will bring light thereby to that mortal idea that brings [the Gods] great joy, that is, freedom, which even the Heavens do not truly know..."

  To put my interpretation plainly, the Akatosh (wasn't that also the name the Ayleids used?) we know was dreamt up by Alessia and who then supported men for reasons explained in the quote above.

  The Selective removed the Auriel from Akatosh (maybe this is when/how he "ascended in full view of his followers"?) to complete the pro-man transformation.

  Originally Bormahu was the Time God to the dragons but Aka is fractured like hell. Because men hold the most influence and have done since the dragon war, isn't it only right that the gods reflect this?

  Gods and Worship gives us the idea that worship = strength. Bormahu must be very weak indeed. If the dragon's version of the Time God was still the most influential as it would have been during the time of the dragon cult, then the definition and purpose of what a Dragonborn is would be a very different matter, part of the reason I theorised that dragon priests were dragonborn.

  The souls of the dragons and TDB are the sort of thing Akatosh doesn't want any more. That "will to dominate" flies in the face of that concept of freedom he seems to love so much. It's probably not a coincidence that the Dovahkiin is the last one, a blunt instrument with one job - a necessary evil from Aka's point of view.

  Probably worthy of it's own discussion actually mate, it is a compex piece of lore. However, if you don't start a topic my interpretation lies in The Song of Pelinal:

  "... and left you to gather sinew with my other half, who will bring light thereby to that mortal idea that brings [the Gods] great joy, that is, freedom, which even the Heavens do not truly know..."

  To put my interpretation plainly, the Akatosh (wasn't that also the name the Ayleids used?) we know was dreamt up by Alessia and who then supported men for reasons explained in the quote above.

  The Selective removed the Auriel from Akatosh (maybe this is when/how he "ascended in full view of his followers"?) to complete the pro-man transformation.

  Originally Bormahu was the Time God to the dragons but Aka is fractured like hell. Because men hold the most influence and have done since the dragon war, isn't it only right that the gods reflect this?

  Gods and Worship gives us the idea that worship = strength. Bormahu must be very weak indeed. If the dragon's version of the Time God was still the most influential as it would have been during the time of the dragon cult, then the definition and purpose of what a Dragonborn is would be a very different matter, part of the reason I theorised that dragon priests were dragonborn.

  The souls of the dragons and TDB are the sort of thing Akatosh doesn't want any more. That "will to dominate" flies in the face of that concept of freedom he seems to love so much. It's probably not a coincidence that the Dovahkiin is the last one, a blunt instrument with one job - a necessary evil from Aka's point of view.

• The Lone Prisoner

  

  Member
   

  May 3, 2015

  I find it quite amusing that this discussion is just the hosts talking. I would contribute, but ES lore is too confusing for me to get too involved in. I fear that my mind may melt if I learn too much.

  I find it quite amusing that this discussion is just the hosts talking. I would contribute, but ES lore is too confusing for me to get too involved in. I fear that my mind may melt if I learn too much.

• Tom

  

  Member
   

  May 3, 2015

  It isn't that bad, or confusing. Just hop down that rabbit hole and see where you end up.

  It isn't that bad, or confusing. Just hop down that rabbit hole and see where you end up.

• The Lone Prisoner

  

  Member
   

  May 4, 2015

  I did hop down the rabbit hole once. Then I started reading Kirkbride. I've repressed all memory beyond that point.

  I did hop down the rabbit hole once. Then I started reading Kirkbride. I've repressed all memory beyond that point.
• Paws

  

  Member
   

  May 4, 2015

  What did you read and why did you hate it, Pris?

  What did you read and why did you hate it, Pris?

• Paul England

  

  Member
   

  May 5, 2015

  Nice article!

  I'm curious, though, why the Kirkbride hesitancy?  The guy's stuff is awesome.  Is it about questions of "canonicity"?  I sorta think the whole "canon" argument misses the point with TES stuff; I much prefer Kirkbride's version of the rule of cool, which IIRC can be summed up thusly: If it's boring, it's obviously wrong.   

  This isn't directed at you, Matt, btw; I've seen several people on the blog speak apologetically or whatever about Kirkbride, and I just don't get it.  I mean, yes, his stuff is "weird".  To me, that's not reason enough to disregard it. 

  Nice article!

  I'm curious, though, why the Kirkbride hesitancy?  The guy's stuff is awesome.  Is it about questions of "canonicity"?  I sorta think the whole "canon" argument misses the point with TES stuff; I much prefer Kirkbride's version of the rule of cool, which IIRC can be summed up thusly: If it's boring, it's obviously wrong.   

  This isn't directed at you, Matt, btw; I've seen several people on the blog speak apologetically or whatever about Kirkbride, and I just don't get it.  I mean, yes, his stuff is "weird".  To me, that's not reason enough to disregard it. 

• Tom

  

  Member
   

  May 5, 2015

  I'm confident in saying all three Lore Hosts are fine with Kirkbride's writing, and consider some of it as good as canon from Bethesda's own mouth.

  There are some people who think his writing is complete gibberish and trying to understand it is like listening to Cthulhu and Satan's wet farts played backwards on a Led Zeppelin album.

  We're tired of folks jumping on our asses for using his stuff, so we hedge our bets and shove disclaimers into anything containing his material.

  DISCLAIMER: Hating his stuff is fine, by the way. I hate some of it too. I like other bits. The ambiguity of TES lore is something I grew to enjoy.

  I'm confident in saying all three Lore Hosts are fine with Kirkbride's writing, and consider some of it as good as canon from Bethesda's own mouth.

  There are some people who think his writing is complete gibberish and trying to understand it is like listening to Cthulhu and Satan's wet farts played backwards on a Led Zeppelin album.

  We're tired of folks jumping on our asses for using his stuff, so we hedge our bets and shove disclaimers into anything containing his material.

  DISCLAIMER: Hating his stuff is fine, by the way. I hate some of it too. I like other bits. The ambiguity of TES lore is something I grew to enjoy.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  May 5, 2015

  

  

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  Member
   

  May 5, 2015

  I totally understand, Paul, and pretty much what Tom said. I love some of MK's stuff. Hell, he's the main contributor to Redguard lore! Cyrus, I feel, is one of the most characterized figures in TES lore. Another one of MK's creations. His work is very polarizing. Not just to the fan base, but to fans themselves. Love one of his stories, hate another. As for the canonicity, I've just stopped worrying about it entirely. No one is going to change anyone's mind. I guess I go by the rule of cool if anything, though not always. For example, I'm not a huge fan of the Godhead idea, but I can't deny that it fits the metaphysics. Anyways glad you enjoyed the article, Paul!

  I totally understand, Paul, and pretty much what Tom said. I love some of MK's stuff. Hell, he's the main contributor to Redguard lore! Cyrus, I feel, is one of the most characterized figures in TES lore. Another one of MK's creations. His work is very polarizing. Not just to the fan base, but to fans themselves. Love one of his stories, hate another. As for the canonicity, I've just stopped worrying about it entirely. No one is going to change anyone's mind. I guess I go by the rule of cool if anything, though not always. For example, I'm not a huge fan of the Godhead idea, but I can't deny that it fits the metaphysics. Anyways glad you enjoyed the article, Paul!
• CounterfeitFrenchman

  

  Member
   

  July 23, 2015

  Ugh, I know that feel. I love Kirkbride's noncanon stuff to death, but he can be so hopelessly esoteric that it verges on total incomprehensibility. Kind of like trying to read Nietzsche or Julius Evola while drunk.  

  Ugh, I know that feel. I love Kirkbride's noncanon stuff to death, but he can be so hopelessly esoteric that it verges on total incomprehensibility. Kind of like trying to read Nietzsche or Julius Evola while drunk.