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Philosophical discussion on the nature of TES universe

  • July 20, 2015

    Hi again everyone!

    I was thinking about some of the concepts on the nature of the material TES universe and how it relates to our own. It might make for some material for new blogs or to be incorporated into new ones.

    Specifically, the relationship between Aetherius, Oblivion and Nirn, the domains of the Aedra and Daedra and the planes between life and afterlife.

    Other concepts:

    - There are certain physical laws that govern Mundus such as gravity, thermodynamics etc.. but then some are different to ours. Is the TES universe a pocket of alternate reality in our own universe or is a separate universe altogether?

    - Magicka. It seems to define a lot of the game play and nature of TES games. Is it tied to Aetherius, Mundus or Oblivion or all three?

     - The spirits of the dead can occupy multiple planes depending on several factors. Sovngarde (I think a section of Aetherius governed by Shor), various realms of Oblivion, and even Nirn itself like the Draugr. But certain mortals can also traverse the etherial realms such as the champion of Cyrodiil in Oblivion, and the Dragonborn in Sovngarde. How is this possible?

    - The Dwemer - did they disappear into an alternative universe? Possibly our own?

    Here is an interesting website and pic devoted to the realms depicted in TES:

    http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Nirn

    I'd be interested in hearing member's opinions on these concepts.

    Cheers,

    Andrew

  • Member
    July 21, 2015

    Umm.. I think it's the brown one

  • July 21, 2015
    Thanks Idesto. I gather by your response that this particular thread isn't going to go anywhere. Lol
  • Member
    July 21, 2015

    It's not something I'd thought about tbh. Good questions nonetheless. Your writing suggests you like to delve deep and understand theories behind common game mechanics, that we maybe take for granted, and I'm guessing that comes from asking questions like this 

  • July 21, 2015

    Not sure how well I can answer. Do you want definitions or how we tie it into the worlds we create? I'll sort of tie it to the world I've created. I delve pretty heavily into the lore in my narrative, well as much of it as I can. 

    In my narrative, the Aedra are beings that participated in the creation of Mundus the mortal plane. They are weakened after this, however, many of them are still considerably powerful in the Dawn Era as they do lead massive armies, (Auri-El, Trinimac, Kyne, Lorkahn). They are still revered in the various pantheons. Auri-El is particularly significant as he is the Aedroth that my character most reveres and is a member of his order. The goal of the order is to ascend into Aetherius as Auri-El illustrated by ascending to Aetherius himself. Other aedra that figure in include Kyne, the widow of shor/lorkhan and the one who convinced Paarthurnax to give the thu'um. Auri-El in my narrative is the Elven version of Akatosh, so he, yes, in my narrative, created dragons. While they cannot directly interfere, they can cause happenings. Auri-El and Kyne participate in the reforging of Wuuthrad by creating weather elements. Both aedra speak to my protagonist in dreams, but why they are able to do this with him would be a huge spoiler and I can't say, though if you read Chapter I, I do give a huge clue. No, he's not a god, far from it. I do go pretty deep into dragons and stuff. 

    Kyne, not Kynareth, but Kyne is curiously missing from any Elven pantheon. They opted for Mara instead. Interesting, no, but considering she allies herself pretty strongly with men, it's not surprising. The irony is that Stendarr makes to the Elven pantheon and he is called the apologist of men. My character does not worship the Divines of the Cyrodiilic empire. 

    Daedra did not contribute to the formation of Nirn and therefore retained their power and dwell in Oblivion. They do not have a general moral alignment, though some are quite evil (Dagon, Bal), others are more ambiguous. All do much more manipulation in mortal lives that Aedra typically do. 

    Aedra - ancestors, were those who were involved somehow in the creation of nirn as conceived by Lorkhan. Original chilren of Anu and Padomay. Daedra came from those two as well.

    Aetherius - the immortal plane, and it is divided into realms of which Sovngarde is a part. My character can travel to various realms in dreams. He visits Kyne's realm, and yes, eventually Sovngarde as he advances in the story. Now why? Cause, it's pretty heavily implied in gameplay, at least in Skyrim, anyway that the Dragonborn is an aspect of Shor. Shor rules Sovngarde, so well, this allows the Dragonborn access. You will also note that Shor is curiously missing from his throne in Sovngarde and nobody says ANYTHING when your dragonborn slaps his/her little butt down on it.  There is also the concept of reincarnation that you're missing, the Dreamsleeve. My character is also a priest, so he deals with burial and the dead, since Arkay is not present in his Pantheon, I rationalize that since Auri-El is the god of time, and life and death are governed by it, members of his Order handled funeral rights. 

    Oblivion - the immortal plane of the Daedra and also comprised of realms. My character does cross into planes of Oblivion, but I change his form to do so. Again, big spoiler I can't reveal. 

    Not sure what happened to the Dwemer. They do not play a large part in my narrative. Other extinct species do, specifically the Snow Elf. I couldn't put everything in my narrative. LOL

    Well, from what I understand of the lore, magicka is the crap Magnus left behind when he bee-lined out of nirn, abandoning his project and headed back to Aetherius. Him, crossing over, left the sun. Other lesser Aedra crossing back became the stars. It is curious to me that Auri-El's symbol is also the sun and the Eagle. Now the eagle is interesting and it is also interesting to note that Skyforge is in the shape of an eagle. I take that idea and run with it. I run with it super far. 

    The picture in that link would be a very Cyrodiilic concept of Nirn. At least in my eyes. I think the Altmer view would differ significantly, with Auri-El occupying a much higher position, closer to Magnus. 

    If any of this made any sense to you, let me know. If it didn't let me know.

    EDIT: GOOD LORD, am I insane. I wrote a damn novel.  

  • July 21, 2015

    Wow Lissette! That certainly was comprehensive! A lot of research in there.

    I suppose in regard to the lore there's some leeway in terms of artistic license when writing fan-fiction. A lot of this lore is reminiscent of Tolkien's Silmarillion. It is interesting that Oblivion, Mundus and the Aedra and Daedra all exist within the sphere of Aetherius. But what is beyond Aetherius? Or is it infinite?

    @Idesto, I do like to ponder metaphysics in general, and as you may have guessed, I have a penchant for the ridiculous and I think the two go together nicely. I like reading other works of fiction along the same lines e.g. In the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy novels, Arthur Dent learns how to fly and transcend the laws of gravity by forgetting to hit the ground after a fall, simply because he is distracted..

    Pure genius. The interesting thing is, that in the real universe, the actual truth can be even more bizarre! Plenty of material for writing, mixed with a bit of philosophy, a reasonable story and interesting characters, and for me at least, a little gonzo and toilet humor...

  • Member
    July 22, 2015

    You really know your lore! I'm bookmarking this. And I may have to reread your chapter 1 

  • Member
    July 22, 2015

    I like the cut of your gib Sir! Whatever that means. 

    Douglas Adams I think is 1 of the great minds of recent history. Totally agree - the way he combines brilliant conceptual thinking with total silliness is pure genius.  Oddly I've never read his books, just a big fan of the radio & TV adaptations!

    I had a strict religious upbringing and managed to escape it when I grew up a bit, so I tend to shy away from anything that smacks of religion. I accept it in  game worlds ofc but don't give it too much thought. 

    I can give you an answer on the Dwemer though. It's interesting to me that they're the only secular culture I've seen in the ES world, relying instead on science, and they're gone. Did gods have a hand in that? I suspect they've just gone deep underground, or maybe to another reality as you suggest. Either way I think - and hope - they'll feature strongly in ES6. 

    BTW, I  use the many worlds theory to RP justify loading a saved game after dying. 

  • July 22, 2015

    Well, I make a pretty strange claim very early on in my narrative, so I had to make sure that though my idea isn't canon, it was still lore-friendly and feels like something that could actually belong in the TES universe. As a result, I spent a lot of time reading. 

  • July 22, 2015
    Karl Marx famously said that "religion is the opiate of the masses". I tend to agree. However, I find the ideas of deities fascinating from the point of view of them being higher order beings that possibly do exist and in ways we could barely imagine. For example in Arthur C Clarkes 2001: A space odyssey, he explores the concept of God or the gods being highly advanced aliens whose influence drives and guides humanity's evolution. Food for thought :)