Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Metaphysics: Plumbing the Heights of TES Universe

• Tom

  

  Member
   

  April 1, 2015

  I had to check my notes, but I focused more on that sort of justice, honor, and mercy aspects. Malacath is this, but a very jaded form of honor and justice. Vaermina was difficult, but I focused on her aspects of being a terror-inducing monster who delights in torturing and making people suffer through their dreams.

  I had to check my notes, but I focused more on that sort of justice, honor, and mercy aspects. Malacath is this, but a very jaded form of honor and justice. Vaermina was difficult, but I focused on her aspects of being a terror-inducing monster who delights in torturing and making people suffer through their dreams.

• Alastor

  

  Member
   

  April 1, 2015

  Care to take a different approach to this idea? What if we tried to fit all Daedra to all Aedra? Think it'd be possible? Would there be any pairings that absolutely wouldn't work? This works agains your "theory of three" but that's kind of the point ;)

  Care to take a different approach to this idea? What if we tried to fit all Daedra to all Aedra? Think it'd be possible? Would there be any pairings that absolutely wouldn't work? This works agains your "theory of three" but that's kind of the point ;)
• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 2, 2015

  Could be hard but fun! My "rule of three" pretty much just comes from a split personality disorder theory:

  Anu who dreams up another Anu, who is opposed by Padme.

  Then Anu 2 divides to form Anuiel who is opposed by Sithis, the subgradient of Padhome.

  Then Aka forms from Anuiel who is opposed by Lorkhan.

  These are the first spirits to say I am Time and I am Space, so to speak.

  So what happens next? Do the other spirits just pop into existence like Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle? Or are they just pieces of Aka and Lork?

  I prefer the latter, as I have said, but it allows room for your idea too.

  Could be hard but fun! My "rule of three" pretty much just comes from a split personality disorder theory:

  Anu who dreams up another Anu, who is opposed by Padme.

  Then Anu 2 divides to form Anuiel who is opposed by Sithis, the subgradient of Padhome.

  Then Aka forms from Anuiel who is opposed by Lorkhan.

  These are the first spirits to say I am Time and I am Space, so to speak.

  So what happens next? Do the other spirits just pop into existence like Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle? Or are they just pieces of Aka and Lork?

  I prefer the latter, as I have said, but it allows room for your idea too.

• Alastor

  

  Member
   

  April 2, 2015

  It holds true until the third repitition. Lorkhan wasn't the only one created at that point. Actually, while the other gods started to take form wasn't he just an idea that began to work on the other gods before he finally coalesced. How can he be the third part of that sequence if so many others formed before him? Or are you just suggesting that he was the first to oppose Akatosh?

  It holds true until the third repitition. Lorkhan wasn't the only one created at that point. Actually, while the other gods started to take form wasn't he just an idea that began to work on the other gods before he finally coalesced. How can he be the third part of that sequence if so many others formed before him? Or are you just suggesting that he was the first to oppose Akatosh?
• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 2, 2015

  Yeah, I'm trying to mash the monomyth into one coherent theory as metaphors of our own big bang and physics. As an "urge" Lorkhan doesn't fit that well, but as space he does.

  So Time happens, allowing the universe to expand, forming Space. Because of that Space, lumps of barely realised matter start to form. This matter eventually becomes the objects in our universe, in this case the planets - the gods.

  So I'm viewing everything since Aka and Lork as requiring those two principles to even exist. So they are like the offspring of time and space. As no procreation is involved, it is easier for me to view them as aspects of the two principles.

  Yeah, I'm trying to mash the monomyth into one coherent theory as metaphors of our own big bang and physics. As an "urge" Lorkhan doesn't fit that well, but as space he does.

  So Time happens, allowing the universe to expand, forming Space. Because of that Space, lumps of barely realised matter start to form. This matter eventually becomes the objects in our universe, in this case the planets - the gods.

  So I'm viewing everything since Aka and Lork as requiring those two principles to even exist. So they are like the offspring of time and space. As no procreation is involved, it is easier for me to view them as aspects of the two principles.

• Vaaljørn

  

  Member
   

  April 2, 2015

  Hahaha. Probably not very relevant, but I just had a funny thought. What if Aka and Lork were conjoined twins? (Time and Space are conjoined, in a sense). This "conjoining" is the reason for the constant struggle. Normally (what a funny term in the context of TES metphysics!), the "I ams" and the "I am nots" are separate and, generally, have nothing to do with each other. Yet, Time and Space are inseparable. 

  Then, Space had an idea: what if I can get the other aspects to conjoin with me and Time?

  Hahaha. Probably not very relevant, but I just had a funny thought. What if Aka and Lork were conjoined twins? (Time and Space are conjoined, in a sense). This "conjoining" is the reason for the constant struggle. Normally (what a funny term in the context of TES metphysics!), the "I ams" and the "I am nots" are separate and, generally, have nothing to do with each other. Yet, Time and Space are inseparable. 

  Then, Space had an idea: what if I can get the other aspects to conjoin with me and Time?

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 2, 2015

  Bingo! This exactly

  Look at Aka's stained glass window picture in which he is two in one. Read the Song of Pelinal in which the Crusader says:

  "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!"

  Why is Aka and Pelinal mad? It's in Et'Ada, Eight Aedra, Eat the Dreamer:

   His mind broke when his "perch from Eternity allowed the day" and we of all the Aurbis live on through its fragments, ensnared in the temporal writings and erasures of the acausal whim that he begat by saying "I AM". In the aetheric thunder of self-applause that followed (nay, rippled until convention, that is, amnesia), is it any wonder that the Time God would hate the same-twin on the other end of the aurbrilical cord, the Space God? That any Creation would become so utterly dangerous because of that singular fear of a singular word's addition: "I AM NOT"?

  Lastly, the final part of the Song of Pelinal in which the Whitestrake is at Alessia's deathbed:

  "... and left you to gather sinew with my other half, who will bring light thereby to that mortal idea that brings [the Gods] great joy, that is, freedom, which even the Heavens do not truly know, [which is] why our Father, the... [Text lost]... in those first [days/spirits/swirls] before Convention... that which we echoed in our earthly madness. [Let us] now take you Up. We will [show] our true faces... [which eat] one another in amnesia each Age."

  Gather sinew with my other half? Pelinal is probably referring to the Covenant of the Dragonfires. So Pelinal the Shezarrine is talking about his other half, Akatosh.

  So I think you may be the fist person to see this exactly how I do.

  Bingo! This exactly

  Look at Aka's stained glass window picture in which he is two in one. Read the Song of Pelinal in which the Crusader says:

  "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!"

  Why is Aka and Pelinal mad? It's in Et'Ada, Eight Aedra, Eat the Dreamer:

   His mind broke when his "perch from Eternity allowed the day" and we of all the Aurbis live on through its fragments, ensnared in the temporal writings and erasures of the acausal whim that he begat by saying "I AM". In the aetheric thunder of self-applause that followed (nay, rippled until convention, that is, amnesia), is it any wonder that the Time God would hate the same-twin on the other end of the aurbrilical cord, the Space God? That any Creation would become so utterly dangerous because of that singular fear of a singular word's addition: "I AM NOT"?

  Lastly, the final part of the Song of Pelinal in which the Whitestrake is at Alessia's deathbed:

  "... and left you to gather sinew with my other half, who will bring light thereby to that mortal idea that brings [the Gods] great joy, that is, freedom, which even the Heavens do not truly know, [which is] why our Father, the... [Text lost]... in those first [days/spirits/swirls] before Convention... that which we echoed in our earthly madness. [Let us] now take you Up. We will [show] our true faces... [which eat] one another in amnesia each Age."

  Gather sinew with my other half? Pelinal is probably referring to the Covenant of the Dragonfires. So Pelinal the Shezarrine is talking about his other half, Akatosh.

  So I think you may be the fist person to see this exactly how I do.

• Vaaljørn

  

  Member
   

  April 2, 2015

  Haha. I forgot about the stained glass depiction of Akatosh. The imagery of conjoined twins just made it click for me. Not sure about Lork/Space wanting the other aspects to be joined, but it seems to make sense. Unity among Lorkhan's people is a recurring theme in TES history/myth.

  Wandering Ehlnofey were a unified people, seeking unity with the Ehlnofey. Unfortunately, the Ehlnofey chose to remain separate, relying on the strength of their individual (as a whole) "purity."

  Alessia, assisted by Pelinal/aka/Lork, united the human race against the Elves.

  Reman united the world for the next great empire, which was based on  diversity.

  Tiber Septim united the world, abeit by force, to form a diverse empire.

  Haha. I forgot about the stained glass depiction of Akatosh. The imagery of conjoined twins just made it click for me. Not sure about Lork/Space wanting the other aspects to be joined, but it seems to make sense. Unity among Lorkhan's people is a recurring theme in TES history/myth.

  Wandering Ehlnofey were a unified people, seeking unity with the Ehlnofey. Unfortunately, the Ehlnofey chose to remain separate, relying on the strength of their individual (as a whole) "purity."

  Alessia, assisted by Pelinal/aka/Lork, united the human race against the Elves.

  Reman united the world for the next great empire, which was based on  diversity.

  Tiber Septim united the world, abeit by force, to form a diverse empire.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 9, 2015

  Unity among Lorkhan's people is a recurring theme in TES history/myth.

  Wandering Ehlnofey were a unified people, seeking unity with the Ehlnofey. Unfortunately, the Ehlnofey chose to remain separate, relying on the strength of their individual (as a whole) "purity."

  Noice, I like it!

  Unity among Lorkhan's people is a recurring theme in TES history/myth.

  Wandering Ehlnofey were a unified people, seeking unity with the Ehlnofey. Unfortunately, the Ehlnofey chose to remain separate, relying on the strength of their individual (as a whole) "purity."

  Noice, I like it!