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Metaphysics: Plumbing the Heights of TES Universe

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  • Paws
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    In your mind picture a circle. Draw eight lines from rim to rim, making a pronounced dot at the centre where all the lines intersect.

    You have just drawn the Aurbis, the universe or "the wheel", which incorporates Mundus, Oblivion and Aetherius. The eight lines are the Eight Aedra, the gift limbs, the spaces between the lines are the sixteen planes of Oblivion. The dot in the middle is Nirn and the rim is Aetherius.

    Star Map by NoxFox

    We are going to examine whether or not the numbers eight and sixteen are coincidental or are connected in some way. Are the Daedra simply discarded aspects of the Aedra, shadows of the spokes?

    To that end, our goal today is to make the planes either side of each spoke match the sphere of the relevant Aedra (in this discussion I'll be using the words Aedra and Daedra to mean gods and demons, respectively, rather than the Elven meaning of those words).

    For example, lets look at Akatosh. On one side of him I have put Hermeaus Mora who's spheres of fate and destiny overlap with the Dragon God of Time, while on the other I have put Peryite, whose likeness and aspects of order link to Akatosh.

    Don't take my word for it, though. In the comments below post your matchups and the reasons for why you think the spheres are linked. 

  • Deleted Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    Oh god, when I saw Metaphysics I was a bit scared, but this is pretty cool.

    I think Dibella is easy, as the darker natures of pleasure are already in 3 Daedra; Sheogorath, Sanguine, and Mephala. Sheogorath is sometimes portrayed as a god of indulged madness (the Khajiit associate him with Moon Sugar), while Sanguine is obviously Dibella gone Dark Side, and Mephala is the god of sex and murder (metaphorically related to the balance of creation and destruction).

    Dibella can be joined to Julianos through Mephala (since the balance seems a bit Julianos-y), and Hermaes Mora and Azura can be added in. Azura was considered the Anticipation of Sotha Sil the Magi, so there must be some connection to magic for her, and Hermaeus Mora is, once again, Julianos gone Dark Side.

    Julianos can then be connected to Mara through Azura, since she's the only Daedric Prince known to "care" for her worshipers, even in her own twisted, selfish way. Maybe add in Meridia and Hircine as the more "benevolent" Daedra? Then connect Hircine to Kynareth?

    There's a lot of odd things about that map, though. I'd never associate Kynareth with Malacath or Dibella with Peryite, and if the second layer (the princes closest to Nirn) are meant to be closest related to the Eight, then I think Sheogorath/Stendarr is a weird mix, but that's just my opinion.

  • Vazgen
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    So, each Aedra gets three Daedra?

    Let's see... Here is my list:

    • Akatosh - Peryite, Mehrunes Dagon, Azura
    • Kynareth - Azura, Hircine, Meridia
    • Arkay - Meridia, Namira, Molag Bal
    • Mara - Molag Bal, Vaermina, Sanguine
    • Dibella - Sanguine, Mephala, Sheogorath
    • Stendarr - Sheogorath, Boethiah, Nocturnal
    • Julianos - Nocturnal, Hermaeus Mora, Clavicus Vile
    • Zenithar - Clavicus Vile, Malacath, Peryite

    Thought process

    • Peryite - dragon form (Akatosh)
    • Mehrunes Dagon - actually fought Akatosh so may be considered as a sort of antithesis
    • Azura - foreseeing future (Akatosh), dusk and dawn (Kynareth)
    • Hircine - hunt (Kynareth)
    • Meridia - light, Magna-Ge connection (Kynareth), hates undead (Arkay)
    • Namira - hates undead (Arkay)
    • Molag Bal - created vampires (Arkay), rape (Mara)
    • Vaermina - nightmares, torture (Mara)
    • Boethiah - deceit (Mara), treason (Stendarr)
    • Nocturnal - thieves (Stendarr)
    • Sanguine - enemy of the Benevolence of Mara (Mara), debauchery (Dibella)
    • Mephala - sex (Dibella)
    • Sheogorath - Dark Seducer servants (Dibella), luck/chance (Stendarr)
    • Boethiah - treason (Stendarr)
    • Nocturnal - thieves (Stendarr), the Unknowable (Julianos)
    • Hermaeus Mora - knowledge (Julianos)
    • Clavicus Vile - pacts for knowledge (Julianos), the god that always wins (Zenithar)
    • Malacath - prove worth by hard work (Zenithar)
    • Peryite - taskmaster title (Zenithar)
  • Matt Feeney the New Guy
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    One could make an argument for Meridia being connected to Akatosh through the Exegesis of Merid-Nunda.

    "...thus does Merid-Nunda [ride? slide?] across the rainbow road from end to end, at one end stretching the dragon, at the other end compressing him...."

    By the way, I like the Mara/Molag Bal connection.

  • Paws
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    Don't worry about the image too much, I just wanted something to illustrate the wheel but now I feel it is a poor choice as it is distracting...

    I like your thoughts, especially Sheogorath as Akatosh. Sheo is a hard one because of his Sithian connection. My intention was to go further and connect the Eight and One with the Sixteen and One, the one being Lorkhan and Sheogorath.

  • Paws
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    So, each Aedra gets three Daedra?

    Let's go with each Aedra having two Daedra so that the numbers add. Three is a very significant number in TES, so having one god with two demonic aspects is appealing to me... 

  • Paws
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    One could make an argument for Meridia being connected to Akatosh through the Exegesis of Merid-Nunda.

    "...thus does Merid-Nunda [ride? slide?] across the rainbow road from end to end, at one end stretching the dragon, at the other end compressing him...."

    By the way, I like the Mara/Molag Bal connection.

    Interesting. In the past I have interpreted that as a path through time and space, time being the dragon and space being his twin.

  • Vazgen
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    I went from the image, where each point (Aedra) has three adjacent Daedric Princes. 

    The most problematics are Nocturnal, Vaermina and Mehrunes Dagon IMO 

  • Deleted Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    I think each Aedra has 3, two that can be considered similar in their fields, and one (the one above them, as in on the picture) that is their complete antithesis and opposite, because quite a few do have them.

    I was thinking Nocturnal could go with Kynareth, since her original position, as Azura's "sister", is to be the queen of the night and darkness. They're both fairly ambiguous daedra, since their titles (or whatever it's called) aren't innately bad like most of the others (ie. King of Rape, Deceiver of Nations).

  • Vazgen
    Member
     
    March 29, 2015

    Hmm, true, and connection to the ravens (birds are Kynareth's domain) is also there  Urgh, that screws my list up and it's too late to fix it -_-


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