Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Legendary Figures: Ulfric Stormcloak

  • March 6, 2015

    I only know of two specific instances that they mention Ulfric publicly agitating for independence in Torygg's presence- the original Moot that elected Torygg High King and when Ulfric showed up to to challenge him. It's implied that he's been pulling for independence for a while, but that's the only times I can remember off-hand that he might have argued it to Torygg directly.

    Sybille claims that Torygg might have sided with Ulfric if pressed, but I'm not sure if we should trust her to be 100% accurate. She mentions that she practically raised Torygg herself; if that's true, the I don't think it's out of the question that she'd unconsciously exaggerate Torygg's innocence and and kindness and the depth of Ulfric's betrayal.

  • Member
    March 6, 2015

    Good stuff.

  • Member
    March 7, 2015

    This is the reason I didn't go into any great depth on that subject. No source here is 100% reliable and so supporters of both sides could get their jimmies rustled if we start down that route.

    If someone can quote the Stormcloak version of events which describe Ben's assertion, then I'll put both sides in and let the reader decide.

  • Member
    March 15, 2015
    One of the best characters to meet, the curiosity of his intentions on the civil war makes me want to know him more, thanks for this :)
  • March 17, 2015

    What kind of 'Talos worship' is the Aldmeri Dominion actually suppressing? In other words, the crux of the matter is whether you think Ulfric regards the historical 'Talos,' Tiber Septim, as a man to be worshiped, or does he regard 'Talos' as an avatar of the gods, or both/and? In all cases, I don't think it really matters, because 'Talos' is a cultural icon, and arguably one that is past its pull date by 4E 201. Because, if you look at Tiber Septim, the historical man, he became a legend largely because of the vast imperial resources at his disposal from bygone ages. His deification as a religious icon came about later, and came to largely symbolize an Empire united. He even became an object of hero worship, which has much to do with martial prowess, domination, and "might makes right." But now, with an Empire already subjected to Elven control, all that 'Talos' represents has already faded.

    Ulfric should have followed in the footsteps of his great ancestor, Jurgen Windcaller. Jurgen eventually realized, like the Greybeards, that the Aedra are not 'gods of culture,' they are not epochal. So what does that make Talos? In my opinion, a false god. He was culture bound, and his success depended on his ancestor's resource base. Daedra, however, *can* be culture bound. In fact, this is in fact what they innately are by nature. And in many ways, you can bind them to your will. And many times, this binding can happen collectively as a culture.

    My opinion, from reading the original article, suggests to me that the key behind Ulfric Stormcloak and his motives lay in his experiences at High Hrothgar. It is quite illogical to support someone so rash as Ulfric, who bends to the Daedric "troubles of this world" - like Talos, by the way - and squander the wisdom of Jurgen and the Greybeards passed down for hundreds of years.

  • March 18, 2015
    The simplest explication is that Nords don't like being told what to do. And the Graybeards are kinda selfish...
  • March 18, 2015

    The Greybeards may appear selfish and 'aloof' from the world, but we must take into account that their outlook about the rest of the world is a bit jaded, and logically so, since their race has been in a series of mighty struggles for power over the long ages. Perhaps you would be inclined to 'get away from it all' as well.

  • March 18, 2015
    That doesn't really justify hoarding knowledge and power that could potentially help people, though. Their perspective may say that's the correct path, but from the position of someone actually down in the world, it's cold comfort.
  • March 18, 2015

    Do you think the Daedra might think the Aedra are hoarding knowledge and power for themselves?

  • March 18, 2015

    I...think that's not what we're talking about? I don't really care about the Aedra and Daedra. At all.

    Hell, I don't even care whether Talos is real or not- the Nords have the right to worship who they want, whether or not it's true.