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The Expunging of Live Roleplaying: Skyrim and Live Roleplaying:

• Deleted Member

  
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  April 20, 2016

  Thank you, Curse. Both rulesets were a nightmare to format, Skyrim because of the limited functions of Google Docs, and Fallout because I had to get the margins just right for it to look even halfway decent. And that's just making them look good, each ruleset took maybe 50+ hours to design and test... each. And I went through at least three different editions of rules... each. So a 300 hour estimate for game design alone, not even polishing the rules, would be a conservative estimate.

  When the group gets removed because it was doing 'more harm than good', it makes all that work feel completely worthless.

  Thank you, Curse. Both rulesets were a nightmare to format, Skyrim because of the limited functions of Google Docs, and Fallout because I had to get the margins just right for it to look even halfway decent. And that's just making them look good, each ruleset took maybe 50+ hours to design and test... each. And I went through at least three different editions of rules... each. So a 300 hour estimate for game design alone, not even polishing the rules, would be a conservative estimate.

  When the group gets removed because it was doing 'more harm than good', it makes all that work feel completely worthless.

• Deleted Member

  
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  April 20, 2016

  Thanks, Tae. As I mentioned to Paul, the GMs (who put in tons of effort maintaining the group on a week by week basis) weren't even involved in the process, which is an insult to their hard work and the love they put into their hobby. I for one am incredibly grateful for the time you put into maintaining the master character sheet google doc, as well as all the other Hosts and GMs of LRP.

  Thanks, Tae. As I mentioned to Paul, the GMs (who put in tons of effort maintaining the group on a week by week basis) weren't even involved in the process, which is an insult to their hard work and the love they put into their hobby. I for one am incredibly grateful for the time you put into maintaining the master character sheet google doc, as well as all the other Hosts and GMs of LRP.

• Deleted Member

  
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  April 20, 2016

  Todd, I agree that the removal of Live Roleplaying: Skyrim and Live Roleplaying: Fallout was quick, but it was by no means painless. When you told me that "... looking back through the history of LRP we realized that the negatives that arose from the group far outweighed the positives ...", it hurt me deeply. It was as if all the work I had done for you, since the first time you approached me and offered me a chance to help... it felt as though it had been all for nothing. No, worse than nothing, it made my work feel like worse than a waste, like I had somehow made the site a worse place just by involving myself.

  When you say 'the negative outweighed all of the positives', like you just did, you overlook and discount every single piece of good content those groups possessed. By eradicating those groups without saying a word, it feels like you are saying that they are not worth as much time or effort as, say, a front-page Poll. You devalue that content, and by so doing you do wrong by every content creator that ever contributed to those groups.

  I know you are a busy man, but when you don't spend one hour to even announce the removal of a group I invested three hundred hours into, that is incredibly disrespectful. It disrespects every member of this site who ever participated in those groups, and especially those who stepped up to GM or Host those groups. I can tell you didn't intend to inflict this pain, because like you said you thought removing the group was 'quick and painless', but I can assure you that it was a painful, discourteous thing to do to people who consider you their friend.

  Todd, I agree that the removal of Live Roleplaying: Skyrim and Live Roleplaying: Fallout was quick, but it was by no means painless. When you told me that "... looking back through the history of LRP we realized that the negatives that arose from the group far outweighed the positives ...", it hurt me deeply. It was as if all the work I had done for you, since the first time you approached me and offered me a chance to help... it felt as though it had been all for nothing. No, worse than nothing, it made my work feel like worse than a waste, like I had somehow made the site a worse place just by involving myself.

  When you say 'the negative outweighed all of the positives', like you just did, you overlook and discount every single piece of good content those groups possessed. By eradicating those groups without saying a word, it feels like you are saying that they are not worth as much time or effort as, say, a front-page Poll. You devalue that content, and by so doing you do wrong by every content creator that ever contributed to those groups.

  I know you are a busy man, but when you don't spend one hour to even announce the removal of a group I invested three hundred hours into, that is incredibly disrespectful. It disrespects every member of this site who ever participated in those groups, and especially those who stepped up to GM or Host those groups. I can tell you didn't intend to inflict this pain, because like you said you thought removing the group was 'quick and painless', but I can assure you that it was a painful, discourteous thing to do to people who consider you their friend.

• Ponty

  

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  April 21, 2016

  While LRP did have its ups and downs I know it was a big part of the site for some people - I would've liked to be more involved myself but I didn't really have the time. The later editions of the rule sets that Chris produced were pretty impressive. I think it's more than a little rude not only to Chris but everyone involved that the groups weren't even given a chance to move to another platform.
  
  The main issue I think this raises though is the lack of transparency in what is going on with the hosts and admins. I guess I didn't really notice this before since I'd been in the Council since early 2012, but a lot of decisions these days seem to have a bit of a shoot first, ask questions later mentality with the community - it'd be great if we could get some more insight in to some of the decisions being made up there - I'm sure even some people that aren't hosts would have some good feedback that would be worth taking on board.

  While LRP did have its ups and downs I know it was a big part of the site for some people - I would've liked to be more involved myself but I didn't really have the time. The later editions of the rule sets that Chris produced were pretty impressive. I think it's more than a little rude not only to Chris but everyone involved that the groups weren't even given a chance to move to another platform.
  
  The main issue I think this raises though is the lack of transparency in what is going on with the hosts and admins. I guess I didn't really notice this before since I'd been in the Council since early 2012, but a lot of decisions these days seem to have a bit of a shoot first, ask questions later mentality with the community - it'd be great if we could get some more insight in to some of the decisions being made up there - I'm sure even some people that aren't hosts would have some good feedback that would be worth taking on board.
• Chris

  

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  April 21, 2016

  I kind of have to agree, even when I was a Host, some of the decisions made I rarely was alerted to. Like Miraak being Moth or whatever. Granted, I don't think I ever interacted with him outside of the Vault, but I still think there should have been some notice he was banned, or a notice that the LRP groups, even if I wasn't really active in them, should have been at least mentioned somewhere

  I kind of have to agree, even when I was a Host, some of the decisions made I rarely was alerted to. Like Miraak being Moth or whatever. Granted, I don't think I ever interacted with him outside of the Vault, but I still think there should have been some notice he was banned, or a notice that the LRP groups, even if I wasn't really active in them, should have been at least mentioned somewhere

• Caesar

  

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  April 21, 2016

  Thanks for the mention, Chris. While I will admit that hearing something from Emer himself would have been nice, this does go a long way.

  Personally, I spent the better part of a year in Live Roleplaying: Skyrim, and for a time it was the only place on the Site that kept me coming back. I was even a GM from July last year until the group's removal earlier this month. Needless to say, I was rather upset to hear of it's removal.

  Tae-Rai was the one who told the other GMs (Fights-With-Honour, Chris and myself) about Live Roleplay's removal. Emer then insisted that Tae needs to abide by the Elder Council's rules to "Regard anything said as confidential", because the GMs were "Not Hosts". When I asked what the reasons were for Live Roleplay's removal, Emer only said that a public announcement would be made at a later date, though it's clear that date never came.

  Emer even removed everyone from the Live Roleplaying: Skyrim's Skype chat without a word, and although it wasn't much work to get a new one up, it was still a sign disrespect.

  Chris has put countless hours of his time into not only creating the Rules Live Roleplay used, but also in managing it. The fact that the first he heard of Live Roleplaying's removal was when Tae-Rai told us in the GM Skype Chat shows (To me, at least) a serious lack of respect for everything he has done.

  Don't get me wrong; There was a time when I really respected, even admired Emer. Now however, after his actions in removing Live Roleplaying, that respect has dwindled.

  I suppose I should start wrapping this up, but before I do, I'd like to thank Tae and Fights for all their work in maintaining Live Roleplaying: Skyrim, but most of all I'd like to thank Chris for all the hard work he's put into the Live Roleplaying groups over the years, and also for allowing us to use his (Although be it slightly modified) system in our new site.

  Also note that this comment is in no way meant to insult Emer, merely just me giving my two cents worth over what happened.

  Thanks for the mention, Chris. While I will admit that hearing something from Emer himself would have been nice, this does go a long way.

  Personally, I spent the better part of a year in Live Roleplaying: Skyrim, and for a time it was the only place on the Site that kept me coming back. I was even a GM from July last year until the group's removal earlier this month. Needless to say, I was rather upset to hear of it's removal.

  Tae-Rai was the one who told the other GMs (Fights-With-Honour, Chris and myself) about Live Roleplay's removal. Emer then insisted that Tae needs to abide by the Elder Council's rules to "Regard anything said as confidential", because the GMs were "Not Hosts". When I asked what the reasons were for Live Roleplay's removal, Emer only said that a public announcement would be made at a later date, though it's clear that date never came.

  Emer even removed everyone from the Live Roleplaying: Skyrim's Skype chat without a word, and although it wasn't much work to get a new one up, it was still a sign disrespect.

  Chris has put countless hours of his time into not only creating the Rules Live Roleplay used, but also in managing it. The fact that the first he heard of Live Roleplaying's removal was when Tae-Rai told us in the GM Skype Chat shows (To me, at least) a serious lack of respect for everything he has done.

  Don't get me wrong; There was a time when I really respected, even admired Emer. Now however, after his actions in removing Live Roleplaying, that respect has dwindled.

  I suppose I should start wrapping this up, but before I do, I'd like to thank Tae and Fights for all their work in maintaining Live Roleplaying: Skyrim, but most of all I'd like to thank Chris for all the hard work he's put into the Live Roleplaying groups over the years, and also for allowing us to use his (Although be it slightly modified) system in our new site.

  Also note that this comment is in no way meant to insult Emer, merely just me giving my two cents worth over what happened.

• Deleted Member

  
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  April 21, 2016

  Along with you, Caesar, I as well would like to thank my now fellow GMs in maintaining LRP and for putting all the hard work in past and present.

  I suppose it's about time for me to make a comment, isn't it?

  Along with you, Caesar, I as well would like to thank my now fellow GMs in maintaining LRP and for putting all the hard work in past and present.

  I suppose it's about time for me to make a comment, isn't it?

• Deleted Member

  
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  April 21, 2016

  I refrain from these types of discussion quite a bit, I just am not the type to take part in stuff like this and whatnot.

  I joined the Vault because of Live Role-Playing and spent the better majority of the year, from roughly March to it's deletion earlier this year, there and in the Character Building/Roleplaying groups. I've sunken at least 50+ hours into it at the absolute least. I don't really have  ton to say other than what's already been said.

  Had it not been Tae, we probably wouldn't have had time to save our work and had it not been for Chris we wouldn't have even got to save the game for something else. I definitely thank those who had a hand in helping LRP.

  I'm quite excited to have a new iteration of LRP, and even more to be a GM. Either way, I agree with everything Chris has said. It is our right to know, that is all. 

  I refrain from these types of discussion quite a bit, I just am not the type to take part in stuff like this and whatnot.

  I joined the Vault because of Live Role-Playing and spent the better majority of the year, from roughly March to it's deletion earlier this year, there and in the Character Building/Roleplaying groups. I've sunken at least 50+ hours into it at the absolute least. I don't really have  ton to say other than what's already been said.

  Had it not been Tae, we probably wouldn't have had time to save our work and had it not been for Chris we wouldn't have even got to save the game for something else. I definitely thank those who had a hand in helping LRP.

  I'm quite excited to have a new iteration of LRP, and even more to be a GM. Either way, I agree with everything Chris has said. It is our right to know, that is all. 

• Deleted Member

  
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  April 21, 2016

  Tae-Rai, Sandy Sand, and Fights-With-Honor created their own website as a spiritual successor to Live Roleplaying: Skyrim. They requested permission to inform site members of the creation of the site, but the Admins have decided that they may not advertise it here. I understand and respect their decision, even if I do not agree with it, just like I respect their authority when it came to removing two groups from the site. It's not authority that I have a problem with, it is fairness and respect that I feel is lacking.

  Tae-Rai, Sandy Sand, and Fights-With-Honor created their own website as a spiritual successor to Live Roleplaying: Skyrim. They requested permission to inform site members of the creation of the site, but the Admins have decided that they may not advertise it here. I understand and respect their decision, even if I do not agree with it, just like I respect their authority when it came to removing two groups from the site. It's not authority that I have a problem with, it is fairness and respect that I feel is lacking.

• Deleted Member

  
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  April 21, 2016

  Thank you for speaking from the heart, Caesar. You put in a lot of hard work and love into Live Roleplaying: Skyrim and you deserve recognition and respect for that.

  Thank you for speaking from the heart, Caesar. You put in a lot of hard work and love into Live Roleplaying: Skyrim and you deserve recognition and respect for that.