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Lore Discussion: Magic Academies

Tags: #Magic 
  • Member
    April 2, 2018

    And so the quest began to name the greatest pussy-wizards of the ages, mages reknowned for their skill with their fingers and tongues so that the mysteries of life become as putty to their confident but gentle touch ... I mean, cats skilled at somatic and verbal incantations :p

    I can't think of any. Part of me wants to say that could be part of a philosophy of balance. Like, if we think of the three attributes of health, stamina and magicka, I sort of like to think that the Two Moons Dance promotes harmony and balance bewteen all three, that none should be greater or lesser than the other (equal points put into each stat in gameplay terms). There's absolutely no lore justification behind that thought, mind. So from what ever angle we skin the cat, a race of fair to middling magic users is manifest - they study alone or follow a spirituality of harmony, maybe, yet never achieve the greatness of Galerion.

    I don't remember a town of mages off the top of my head, but that's definitely worth checking out so I'll head to the March later!

     

  • April 2, 2018

    Paws said:

    And so the quest began to name the greatest pussy-wizards of the ages, mages reknowned for their skill with their fingers and tongues so that the mysteries of life become as putty to their confident but gentle touch ... I mean, cats skilled at somatic and verbal incantations :p

    I can't think of any. Part of me wants to say that could be part of a philosophy of balance. Like, if we think of the three attributes of health, stamina and magicka, I sort of like to think that the Two Moons Dance promotes harmony and balance bewteen all three, that none should be greater or lesser than the other (equal points put into each stat in gameplay terms). There's absolutely no lore justification behind that thought, mind. So from what ever angle we skin the cat, a race of fair to middling magic users is manifest - they study alone or follow a spirituality of harmony, maybe, yet never achieve the greatness of Galerion.

    I don't remember a town of mages off the top of my head, but that's definitely worth checking out so I'll head to the March later!

    I could be wrong about the town, maybe I'm mistaking it for a Mages Guild chapter. My memory is very sketchy there.

    As for the mages. I'd like to think that most of the Khajiiti mages are like this guy, who wrote the book on lightning magic. Mora'at's Theory of Lightning. I'd bet my money that this is exactly what Khajiiti mages are like. Compare this to J'zargo and his competion about who learns destruction magic faster :D

     

  • Member
    April 2, 2018

    Karver the Lorc said:

    I could be wrong about the town, maybe I'm mistaking it for a Mages Guild chapter. My memory is very sketchy there.

    As for the mages. I'd like to think that most of the Khajiiti mages are like this guy, who wrote the book on lightning magic. Mora'at's Theory of Lightning. I'd bet my money that this is exactly what Khajiiti mages are like. Compare this to J'zargo and his competion about who learns destruction magic faster :D

     

    The book does seem to have been written to help deepen the stereotype established by J'zargo - and Oblivion's J'skar, for that matter. It could be that magic institutions attract a certain type of cat (the worst type :D) and that it's easy to find competitive and ego-centric kitties in the guilds or colleges. However, that sort of bellies the calm, patient and spiritual nature that seems fairly common among Khajiit who follow a higher pursuit, to my eyes.

  • Member
    April 2, 2018

    What about the Blackcaster Mages Guild in Elinhir? Iirc, they were a rogue group of mages whose founder had cut ties with the Mages Guild. Think they could still be around circa Fourth Era?

  • April 2, 2018

    A-Pocky-Hah! said:

    What about the Blackcaster Mages Guild in Elinhir? Iirc, they were a rogue group of mages whose founder had cut ties with the Mages Guild. Think they could still be around circa Fourth Era?

    While I personally would like to believe there is still some sort of remnant of the Blackcasters in Fourth Era (I played with the idea in Of Hounds and Men after all) the events of ESO suggest that the chances are not very likely, since the Blackcasters pretty much destroyed themselves and Elinhir when the Serpent poked in. 

     

    Paws said:

    Karver the Lorc said:

    I could be wrong about the town, maybe I'm mistaking it for a Mages Guild chapter. My memory is very sketchy there.

    As for the mages. I'd like to think that most of the Khajiiti mages are like this guy, who wrote the book on lightning magic. Mora'at's Theory of Lightning. I'd bet my money that this is exactly what Khajiiti mages are like. Compare this to J'zargo and his competion about who learns destruction magic faster :D

    The book does seem to have been written to help deepen the stereotype established by J'zargo - and Oblivion's J'skar, for that matter. It could be that magic institutions attract a certain type of cat (the worst type :D) and that it's easy to find competitive and ego-centric kitties in the guilds or colleges. However, that sort of bellies the calm, patient and spiritual nature that seems fairly common among Khajiit who follow a higher pursuit, to my eyes.

    Maybe two sides of one coin, Phil? As you said, there be balance. If there are cats who are all over serenity there have to be crazy skooma cats fiddling with cracking magic. I mean, there is Baan Dar and Rajhin and Riddle'Thar who work as the opposite of Khenarthi and Azurah and the moons, no? 

     

  • Member
    April 2, 2018

    While there's really no evidence to confirm or deny this, I'd be remiss to not mention Shad Astula. First off, it's an island, meaning that even though it is a part of Morrowind, it may have been spared the Argonian invasion. Also, while during ESO it was a training ground for Pact mages, it's not difficult to see the Dunmer either restricting it to their own kind or opening it to anyone with an invitation.

  • Member
    April 3, 2018

    Tenebrous said:

    While there's really no evidence to confirm or deny this, I'd be remiss to not mention Shad Astula. First off, it's an island, meaning that even though it is a part of Morrowind, it may have been spared the Argonian invasion. Also, while during ESO it was a training ground for Pact mages, it's not difficult to see the Dunmer either restricting it to their own kind or opening it to anyone with an invitation.

    I would also assume Shad Astula would still be around. I think that it's totally viable that an island full of mages would be able to keep out even a large number of Argonians. Even if the Argonians were able to sack Shad Astula, I think it would likely be rebuilt. The Dunmer cherish their legacies and seem to have rebuilt almost everything else by this point, so even a sacked Shad Astula would be up and running by the time of Skyrim in my mind. However, I do think that the institution would be pretty selective, as you need an invitation from the college to join in ESO.

    As for some other cultures, I would wonder if there was a schooling or apprenticeship that is required for the Bosmer to learn their tree-bending magic. It is said that since they can't harm vegetation, they use magic to shape the trees into homes and walkways and the like. Considering this, I think it would make sense for there to be at least a small group of people that are tutored in the ways of tree magic. I also think that groups like the Spinners would be able to teach magic and have apprentices of magic.

    And finally with the Argonians, I would think that most of the magic learning would be done under tutilage of the Hist Speakers and Hist mages. They have deep magical connections and outside of them, it doesn't seem like Argonians would have any singular, unified magic institution. I don't see Argonians as traditionally magically interested. Also the An-Xileel might not take well to independant organizations. If they did, they would pretty much certainly be Argonian only.

  • April 4, 2018

    bolionce said:

    Tenebrous said:

    While there's really no evidence to confirm or deny this, I'd be remiss to not mention Shad Astula. First off, it's an island, meaning that even though it is a part of Morrowind, it may have been spared the Argonian invasion. Also, while during ESO it was a training ground for Pact mages, it's not difficult to see the Dunmer either restricting it to their own kind or opening it to anyone with an invitation.

    I would also assume Shad Astula would still be around. I think that it's totally viable that an island full of mages would be able to keep out even a large number of Argonians. Even if the Argonians were able to sack Shad Astula, I think it would likely be rebuilt. The Dunmer cherish their legacies and seem to have rebuilt almost everything else by this point, so even a sacked Shad Astula would be up and running by the time of Skyrim in my mind. However, I do think that the institution would be pretty selective, as you need an invitation from the college to join in ESO.

    I´m actually going to disagree with you, guys, on this one. First off: Shad Astula isn´t an island. It´s just on the other side of the river in Deshaan, with mountaints right behind it. And the reason why I personally think it is not around anymore is because probably what kept it alive and possible was the Pact itself. Once the Pact is gone I can see Telvanni sweeping in and starting a very nasty rivalry with that academy. And since the academy isn´t as widespread as Mages Guild I can´t imagine them being able to withstand the plots and schemes of Telvanni for very long. Technically, how I can imagine it survived (at least until Argonians invaded) is that if Shad Astula became a Telvanni tower of sort. Overally, Shad Astula doesn´t really go well with Dunmer culturally in my opinion.

    But let´s say I´m arguing here just for the sake of offering a different perspective.

    bolionce said:

    As for some other cultures, I would wonder if there was a schooling or apprenticeship that is required for the Bosmer to learn their tree-bending magic. It is said that since they can't harm vegetation, they use magic to shape the trees into homes and walkways and the like. Considering this, I think it would make sense for there to be at least a small group of people that are tutored in the ways of tree magic. I also think that groups like the Spinners would be able to teach magic and have apprentices of magic.

    And finally with the Argonians, I would think that most of the magic learning would be done under tutilage of the Hist Speakers and Hist mages. They have deep magical connections and outside of them, it doesn't seem like Argonians would have any singular, unified magic institution. I don't see Argonians as traditionally magically interested. Also the An-Xileel might not take well to independant organizations. If they did, they would pretty much certainly be Argonian only.

    I like these ideas. I´d imagine that there could be some kind of place in Falinesti for example, but not sure it could be called academy. I have this image in mind, of some kind of priesthood dedicated to Yffre, learning magic to "talk with the trees", in a way to please Yffre.

    And I agree with you 100% on the Argonians - mostly because I don´t have much of an opinion on them :D

     

  • Member
    April 5, 2018

     

    Another in-game example of apprenticeships occurs in Rorikstead between the Breton mage, Jouanne, and the young girl, Sissel, as seen by two conversations between them:

    Sissel: "Jouane?"
    Jouane: "Yes, child?"
    Sissel: "I was just wondering. The next time we meet, do you think maybe you could teach me some fire magic? Nothing dangerous! Maybe a candle lighting spell?"
    Jouane: "By the Eight, keep your voice down! Do you want the entire village to learn our secrets?"
    Sissel: "Oh! I'm... I'm sorry. I didn't mean to upset you."
    Jouane: "Shh shh. It's fine, child. It's fine. But we must be cautious, hmm? What we do, the things I teach you. The others wouldn't understand."
    Sissel: "I understand. I'm sorry. I just get so excited thinking about it. So... can we. Do some fire magic?"
    Jouane: "Hmph. Most certainly not. But perhaps I can teach you how to put some candles out. We'll start there."
    Sissel: "Oooh, wonderful! I can't wait!"

    Jouane: "Today I'll teach you a useful spell that might just save your life. If you should ever fall into a river, you'll be very glad you learned it."
    Sissel: "Oh! Are you going to teach me how to turn into a mud crab?"
    Jouane: "Oh, it's much better than that. I will teach you how to breathe underwater, with no need to turn into one of those ugly creatures."
    Sissel: "Wow! Then I could dive into a river and swim so far away that Britte and father could never find me."
    Jouane: "Now, clear your mind and breathe deeply. Good concentration is very important for spellcasting."

     

    Regarding covens, the letter found in the cellar of Anise's cabin confirms that covens exist and that training occurs within them:

    Helgi, dear, why do you hesitate? You can feel the power coursing in your blood! You have only to reach out and grasp it! Renounce that boy of yours and come, come live with me in the forest. My sister will be here soon. Together, we can form a proper coven, and your training will truly begin.

     

  • Member
    April 6, 2018

     

    Oh hey my Question, glad it sparcked some Interest :D 

    I would say that most normal people learn from Wizards inside the community. Orgnar even said it's safer to have the Court Wizard teach you then go to the academy.