Tamriel Vault - What is Lore to You: Chapter 2

Member

May 24, 2016

I only changed the one thing, Phil. I did have a cow about it though at the time.

I had a read of the first article way back and I actually prefer the way ES Lore is dished out. It is actually very human, which was a society based on myth until the Scientific revolution. And who knows, perhaps that is myth too? Just an evolution on how we explain our origins and we are still all wrong.

1. Similar view to Karves on this. Lore is by the people for the people to just make sense of the stuff going on around them that doesn't make sense. Who knows what the heck Anu is thinking.

2. Gaps in the lore is an opportunity to make up my own shit and have it blend seamlessly.

3. It has bothered me in the past, yes. I had to fix Altmeri burial customs when ESO came out, but I found the spot, edited it and now you really can't tell that it was something that wasn't in my narrative. Now, I'm not so bothered by it. I have already outlined the lore of Straag Rod and there are some contradictions, but I no longer care. What I've done is reconciled with enough sources that it works and I'm very satisfied, especially with as far into the metaphysical I go.

4. I like the metaphysical depth and the craziness. The crazier, the better, so long as everybody sleeps with everybody else in the end, I'm good. My favorite thing is rooting the aspects of Lore that are based on actual cultural mythological references. We learn how rich our own history is through its cultures many myths and legends.

5. I like Apocrypha. It is a fun place with much squishy, ooozy eyes and tentacles and stuffs. I like to pet the lurkers and tickle their chins while I reads. Seekers like their bellies rubbed like little doggies.

6. You two are doing a great job. Keep up the crazy.

Paws

Member

May 25, 2016

Well ok then Thuri We keep it as is with a minor tweek but remember it is about fun. This is a hobby and we do it for fun, some people find fun in Tips and Tricks, gameplay mechanics and number crunching. To me that feels like hard work so I tend to avoid it. People view lore in the same way, perhaps. So it may not be laziness, just how people choose to spend their time.

1. So in Skyrim the first book you find is like, mixed unit tactics or some crap. Do you think it would pay for the next game to have a guide book, like a race guide or something? Or at that point is the new player so keen to just run and explore that the setting is best left to unfold at it's own pace?

2. Agreed. Do you think that is something LG and Story Corner could collab on down the line? If there is a gap in lore you come across, we could ask the talented folks who regularly write to fill in that gap? I remember Spotted Fawn did some Monkey Truth for Solstheim and Skaal lore.

3. Good points

Paws

Member

May 25, 2016

Man, I love that song. It is a guilty pleasure. That and The Scatman

Paws

Member

May 25, 2016

A whole cow? That's fascinating Lis, the idea that the standard model of the universe we use could be all wrong. I remember in the years prior to the discovery of the Higgs Boson it was all like, "if we don't find it then it means everything is wrong." Touch and go for years! I would have loved it had it been proven non existent. Stuff like Dark Matter and Dark Energy are so far beyond our ability to explain. We just know it's there and we theorise but actual proof or an explanation...? Mental.

1. Can Anu even think?

2. Agreed!

3.Great news. That whole thing was fun, that quest of discovery. Did the search for new lore actually make it more fun? Because we were all learning something new, did it lesson the sting in a give and take kind of way? You lose this but you gain that?

4. Yeah, "everything is an apotheosis and everyone sleeps with everyone else."

5.

6. Aye, thanks

Vazgen

Member

May 29, 2016

- How do you use lore? When you are involved in a project or are researching a concept, how much does the lore dictate what you can and can't do?

I use it to flesh out my characters. When I get the gameplay all figured out, I delve into lore and find a concept that would work for the character. In the process, you read a bunch about the race in general and it helps with further roleplay.

- How do you deal with a scenario in which there is a gap in the lore? Is such a gap a restriction or a freedom?

I try to stay true to lore all the time. If there is a gap, I try to narrow it down as much as I can and then fill it out with my interpretation which should NOT contradict existing lore. In case of restrictions, I try to fit the character in.

- How do you deal with a scenario in which the lore contradicts your original idea?

I adjust my original idea ;)

- Is the depth of setting sometimes too much and off-putting?

Nah, not really. Just gives you more information to research.

- Or are you comfortable navigating Apocrypha's many shelves?

Yeah, pretty much so :) I admit, I do try to stay away from metaphysics articles since too much in them is based on interpretation.

- Anything else relevant in terms of how the setting's lore resonates within you. Is there anything you feel would help make The Lore Group more welcoming?

Not sure, to me it is welcoming enough. But you can maybe do weekly lore podcasts with people asking questions and getting answers in real time? Or simply post a new article each week (I'm not on the site as much as I used to so sorry if you already do that).

ShinJin

Member

May 29, 2016

When you are involved in a project or are researching a concept, how much does the lore dictate what you can and can't do? I didn't really realize out till now, but the lore is pretty important to me. It pretty much subconsciously shapes how I approach my builds. I find the lore helps focus what I do. How do you deal with a scenario in which there is a gap in the lore? Is such a gap a restriction or a freedom? I'm not above creating a bit of my own lore to help connect the gaps (for example, I have tried to bring the samurai class into Skyrim by creating a "secluded group" of individuals who live by their own code of honor). Or sometimes I bend both the TES lore and the outside lore and connect the ends together (did that for the first Crossworlds event). I like to think of it more as a challenge than a restriction :D How do you deal with a scenario in which the lore contradicts your original idea? I tweak stuff... sometimes the original idea, and sometimes the lore n but I try my best to make them meet in the middle. Is the depth of setting sometimes too much and off-putting? Yup... lore still scares me a bit. It can be intimidating ;D Or are you comfortable navigating Apocrypha's many shelves? I don't even know what that means xD Is there anything you feel would help make The Lore Group more welcoming? Honestly, the vault's lore gurus have always been accessible, accommodating, and a pleasure to work with. Probably one of the most important (but underutilized) assets the vault has to offer. Thanks for all you guys do! :D

Serevus

Member

May 30, 2016

Even though I am somewhat of an infant scholar, one who has only just arrived in Apocrypha, my journey so far has been great. The Vault and it's numerous experts have been a great boon on my education, so without further adieu:

1. Lore really makes me feel like what I am doing has a purpose. Like I'm not just pulling things out of my ass, like I have a safety net to fall back on and that while I may be lost, there are others who will help me find my way. The biggest role that lore plays in my gaming is character backgrounds. I've been developing a character (Hannibal Venen) for a really long time now, and you should really see my bookmarks tab. The lore that I've researched and put into him really makes him, well, almost real. Not 'real' in the normal sense, but that he's believable in that universe. I can really put myself into what he feels, what the people around him feel, and really develop his emotions, his motives, all that good stuff. I don't see the lore so much as limitations, but as molds to form my character around. Contradictions? Find a source that doesn't contradict, or twist my story so that it fits just right and still feels good.

2. Lore gaps make my teeth itch. They also exhilarate me. When I see a gap in what I know, it pushes me to find out what fits there. When I see a gap in the lore, it pushes me to ask questions that I normally wouldn't have even considered. And if those questions don't have answers, then in comes the headcanon. At least until that gap has been filled with something just as good.

3. Kind of the same as #2. If something that I originally thought was right, is actually wrong, I tend to then find out as much as I can about said subject so I don't get it wrong again. Something recent that happened like this was my ideas about Talos. I used to think that Talos was just Tiber Septim, that he was this glory filled man who rose up, when in actuality it is sooooo much more complicated than that. Dragon breaks, soul-sick battlemages, a mer made god, the works. That then pushed me to learn and try to find out everything about that subject, thus making me more knowledgeable.

4. At first it was, very much so. But then I realized that every loremaster started out knowing nothing, so I lit a fire under my ass and started reading.

5. Yes, maybe too much so

6. I thought I'd just share how I really got introduced to lore. I was in a Zaric Zhakaron stream and we started (not really started, every conversation in those streams becomes lore related somehow) getting really deep into lore. Specifically, Tonal Architecture. That daunting phrase scared me at first, and I asked what it was. After hearing the answer, and reading articles on UESP and the TES lore subreddit about it, I was in awe. I had no idea as to how extensive the lore in this game was. It really blew my mind at how deep the history and metaphysics of this world were. Before I knew it I was trying to wrap my head around the 36 Sermons of Vivec, contemplating the nature of the soul, and trying to understand what the hell a kalpa was. And don't even get me started on my fumble with Lyg.

Even though I am somewhat of an infant scholar, one who has only just arrived in Apocrypha, my journey so far has been great. The Vault and it's numerous experts have been a great boon on my education, so without further adieu:

1. Lore really makes me feel like what I am doing has a purpose. Like I'm not just pulling things out of my ass, like I have a safety net to fall back on and that while I may be lost, there are others who will help me find my way. The biggest role that lore plays in my gaming is character backgrounds. I've been developing a character (Hannibal Venen) for a really long time now, and you should really see my bookmarks tab. The lore that I've researched and put into him really makes him, well, almost real. Not 'real' in the normal sense, but that he's believable in that universe. I can really put myself into what he feels, what the people around him feel, and really develop his emotions, his motives, all that good stuff. I don't see the lore so much as limitations, but as molds to form my character around. Contradictions? Find a source that doesn't contradict, or twist my story so that it fits just right and still feels good.

2. Lore gaps make my teeth itch. They also exhilarate me. When I see a gap in what I know, it pushes me to find out what fits there. When I see a gap in the lore, it pushes me to ask questions that I normally wouldn't have even considered. And if those questions don't have answers, then in comes the headcanon. At least until that gap has been filled with something just as good.

3. Kind of the same as #2. If something that I originally thought was right, is actually wrong, I tend to then find out as much as I can about said subject so I don't get it wrong again. Something recent that happened like this was my ideas about Talos. I used to think that Talos was just Tiber Septim, that he was this glory filled man who rose up, when in actuality it is sooooo much more complicated than that. Dragon breaks, soul-sick battlemages, a mer made god, the works. That then pushed me to learn and try to find out everything about that subject, thus making me more knowledgeable.

4. At first it was, very much so. But then I realized that every loremaster started out knowing nothing, so I lit a fire under my ass and started reading.

5. Yes, maybe too much so

6. I thought I'd just share how I really got introduced to lore. I was in a Zaric Zhakaron stream and we started (not really started, every conversation in those streams becomes lore related somehow) getting really deep into lore. Specifically, Tonal Architecture. That daunting phrase scared me at first, and I asked what it was. After hearing the answer, and reading articles on UESP and the TES lore subreddit about it, I was in awe. I had no idea as to how extensive the lore in this game was. It really blew my mind at how deep the history and metaphysics of this world were. Before I knew it I was trying to wrap my head around the 36 Sermons of Vivec, contemplating the nature of the soul, and trying to understand what the hell a kalpa was. And don't even get me started on my fumble with Lyg.

Paws

Member

May 30, 2016

Hey Vaz Thanks for replying. Considering you got the ball rolling way back when, I am glad to have your thoughts on its evolution.

1. It sounds as though you like to get inside the head of a specific race, see the world from their cultural perspective, yet I know from our chats that you are never afraid if twisting it, or exploring thematic elements that remain untapped. Would you say that it is a fair assessment that you enjoy the cultures but are hesitant to break the mould? That is far from a criticism, I simply mean that to play, say, a Nord from High Rock who does Bretony things is less satisfactory to your creative process when you could play a Breton from High Rock instead...?

2. Makes sense. How do you feel about others who follow a different process and are keen to insert their own interpretations into a gap? Do you find it jarring when a project doesn't mesh with your view, or is your adherence to lore something personal that you don't hold others to that standard? Again, not a criticism. Simply curiosity.

3. Hmm, interesting. Have you ever gotten so far along with a project only to feel let down by the idea that your original concept doesn't quite work?

4. Glad to hear it You have never had an issue tackling the sources.

5. Ahh, good old metaphysics. I have been meaning to post a reinterpretation, a definition, of that word. It is the one thing I think which puts so many off. The word itself has become synonymous with abstract concepts like Towers or Apotheosis, but really it is just the age old questions humans have always asked: Why? What? When? How? I almost feel a collective name change is in order - no more metaphysics, more theology and cosmology.

6. Ha! Podcasts or Q and A's are so freaking hard for me. On the spot is difficult, the mind goes blank and coherency is a lost cause. Just ask those who have joined my livestreams Weekly lore articles are a challenge. I could churn them out if given a topic but they lack spirit. I can only ever do them justice when my heart is in it or someone else's heart is in it and they need guidance. Which is something few admit to.

To create things for the sake of it and then be faced with apathy is a crushing thing. Yet I see your point. Trouble is, when we have things like UESP it becomes a matter of relevancy. In each Dossier, for example, I try and play up or reinterpret the understated aspects, but always I feel "what is even the point?" So this is what this discussion is about. I am trying to find a way of staying relevant, to create useful content without someone needing to ask for it, yet not knowing what they want to see more of. I have a sense of what a few folks would like to see based on Karver's discussion, but beyond that it is hard to know how to present it. In universe style or factual? Interpretive like Kynareth's style or dictated like Vix's? Each has merits.