Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Mara and the Ritual Stone

• Deleted Member

  
   

  April 22, 2015

  We should do this anyway.

  We should do this anyway.
• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 22, 2015

  Well thinking of the Serpent as evil is maybe over simplifying. At this level of lore we are discussing things get pretty deep. Lorkhan's story literally underpins the entirety of TES metaphysics so getting a handle on him is hard.

  In brief, Lorkhan failed so that we might succeed.

  See, Lorkhan is Akatosh's other half. When Time who is Aka said "hey, I AM!" and looked at himself, it was Lorkhan who realised this wasn't true. When he looked at himself he said "hey, I AM NOT!" because he realised that he was a figment of Anu's dream.

  Everything he did was in the pursuit of the ultimate goal - mortals to be able to escape that dream and say I AM and I AM NOT and still keep their own identity. This is CHIM.

  The Serpent, which is Lorkhan's ghost, which is an aspect of Sithis, which is an aspect of Padomay, is wandering the heavens screaming "I AM NOT." It isn't evil, it just is.

  Well thinking of the Serpent as evil is maybe over simplifying. At this level of lore we are discussing things get pretty deep. Lorkhan's story literally underpins the entirety of TES metaphysics so getting a handle on him is hard.

  In brief, Lorkhan failed so that we might succeed.

  See, Lorkhan is Akatosh's other half. When Time who is Aka said "hey, I AM!" and looked at himself, it was Lorkhan who realised this wasn't true. When he looked at himself he said "hey, I AM NOT!" because he realised that he was a figment of Anu's dream.

  Everything he did was in the pursuit of the ultimate goal - mortals to be able to escape that dream and say I AM and I AM NOT and still keep their own identity. This is CHIM.

  The Serpent, which is Lorkhan's ghost, which is an aspect of Sithis, which is an aspect of Padomay, is wandering the heavens screaming "I AM NOT." It isn't evil, it just is.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 22, 2015

  Not sure. If we distil the legends back to basics like the Anuad, the stars are the pure blood of Anu.

  What if we propose that the Magna-Ge's "escape" from Lorkhan's trap was actually part of the plan?

  In an "as above so below"context, the Mundus Stones, directly linked to the Constellations, are doing what the stars have been doing all along -  protecting Mundus from the Hungry Snake.

  The Hungry Snake is Alduin (who is Aka who is Lorkhan). So the legends of the Dragonborn actually reflect the mythic stories of the gods.

  From that perspective the, the stories about the gods could simply be retellings of the stories of the Constellations.

  Not sure. If we distil the legends back to basics like the Anuad, the stars are the pure blood of Anu.

  What if we propose that the Magna-Ge's "escape" from Lorkhan's trap was actually part of the plan?

  In an "as above so below"context, the Mundus Stones, directly linked to the Constellations, are doing what the stars have been doing all along -  protecting Mundus from the Hungry Snake.

  The Hungry Snake is Alduin (who is Aka who is Lorkhan). So the legends of the Dragonborn actually reflect the mythic stories of the gods.

  From that perspective the, the stories about the gods could simply be retellings of the stories of the Constellations.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 22, 2015

  Ok but don't forget

  We are straying into interpretation territory and I am loathe to tell people "this is that" on such a scale.

  That said, I have some thoughts on Tsun/Zenithar to use to help illustrate the unconscious god thing and don't want to forget.

  Ok but don't forget

  We are straying into interpretation territory and I am loathe to tell people "this is that" on such a scale.

  That said, I have some thoughts on Tsun/Zenithar to use to help illustrate the unconscious god thing and don't want to forget.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  April 22, 2015

  Phil, bear with me, but what if these stories of Ehnofax and what not are indicative of a real people? And not some gods coming to earth? If we take out the stories, what do we know? We have multiple structures, like the adamantine tower, and references to ancient cities buried in the sands of Elswyre. Could this be pointing to a real people group that splintered into what we know now? What if we approached this like how we would real life stuff? Could be fun where it leads.

  Phil, bear with me, but what if these stories of Ehnofax and what not are indicative of a real people? And not some gods coming to earth? If we take out the stories, what do we know? We have multiple structures, like the adamantine tower, and references to ancient cities buried in the sands of Elswyre. Could this be pointing to a real people group that splintered into what we know now? What if we approached this like how we would real life stuff? Could be fun where it leads.
• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 22, 2015

  Ha I love it. Have you read The Light and the Dark? Imagine the line below in the context of what you're saying:

   "The gods have an unusual origin, if some of the oldest tales are true. The oldest inhabitants of this world -- no one seems to be sure what race they were -- had a system of myths that they believed in for a thousand years. The people of et'Ada believed for so long and so well, that their beliefs may, just may, have drawn upon the energies surrounding Tamriel to bring the gods themselves into being.

  So the first people lived in a place called et'Ada and built many great structures...

  Do you see Shor? I don't need to bear with you because you are looking at it in exactly the right way. Your questions about gods having identities and consciousness of their own all boil down to this - stories.

  Ha I love it. Have you read The Light and the Dark? Imagine the line below in the context of what you're saying:

   "The gods have an unusual origin, if some of the oldest tales are true. The oldest inhabitants of this world -- no one seems to be sure what race they were -- had a system of myths that they believed in for a thousand years. The people of et'Ada believed for so long and so well, that their beliefs may, just may, have drawn upon the energies surrounding Tamriel to bring the gods themselves into being.

  So the first people lived in a place called et'Ada and built many great structures...

  Do you see Shor? I don't need to bear with you because you are looking at it in exactly the right way. Your questions about gods having identities and consciousness of their own all boil down to this - stories.

• Deleted Member

  
   

  April 22, 2015

  What is this light in the dark thing. You had my curiosity sir, but now you have my attention.

  What is this light in the dark thing. You had my curiosity sir, but now you have my attention.
• Paws

  

  Member
   

  April 22, 2015

  The Light and the Dark is one of the very first books in The Elder Scrolls Setting, written way back in the 90's. It is part of the original world-building ideas when TES made the transition from tabletop D&D setting to computer game.

  It is out of date now, of course, but ideas it conveys survive in The Monomyth, Gods and Worship, The Anuad and The Old Ways.

  The Light and the Dark is one of the very first books in The Elder Scrolls Setting, written way back in the 90's. It is part of the original world-building ideas when TES made the transition from tabletop D&D setting to computer game.

  It is out of date now, of course, but ideas it conveys survive in The Monomyth, Gods and Worship, The Anuad and The Old Ways.

• Vaaljørn

  

  Member
   

  April 22, 2015

  In an "as above so below"context, the Mundus Stones, directly linked to the Constellations, are doing what the stars have been doing all along -  protecting Mundus from the Hungry Snake.

  This coincides with ESO's presentaition of the Celestials quite nicely. The Serpent gained control of the Guardian Constellations and then forced them to materialize into entity form to wage war on Tamriel. The first order of business was to corrupt the stones. As above, so below. 

  In an "as above so below"context, the Mundus Stones, directly linked to the Constellations, are doing what the stars have been doing all along -  protecting Mundus from the Hungry Snake.

  This coincides with ESO's presentaition of the Celestials quite nicely. The Serpent gained control of the Guardian Constellations and then forced them to materialize into entity form to wage war on Tamriel. The first order of business was to corrupt the stones. As above, so below. 

• AncienTzSlayeR

  

  Member
   

  April 22, 2015

  Don't see this as trying to stop the conversation, it's really not, I'm just throwing in what started this whole gathering of theologians. 

  How is the Ritual linked to Mara?

  Hopefully what we are currently discussing all comes back to the source! Also, as we agree upon new theories, could we perhaps update the original discussion post so we can easily reference them during our investigation.

  Don't see this as trying to stop the conversation, it's really not, I'm just throwing in what started this whole gathering of theologians. 

  How is the Ritual linked to Mara?

  Hopefully what we are currently discussing all comes back to the source! Also, as we agree upon new theories, could we perhaps update the original discussion post so we can easily reference them during our investigation.