Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

What is Lore to You: Chapter 2

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  May 31, 2016

  1. There is a distinct difference for me when working on a character backstory or a whole faction. A character can be an exception of general lore to an extent due to his backstory but when there are multiple characters like this - it stretches it. For your example, a Nord from High Rock doing Bretony things is perfectly fine, a faction of Nords in High Rock doing Bretony things less so. Especially with no record of them.

  2. I don't try to force my views on others and think everyone's ideas are equally valid, especially since it all comes to interpreting lore facts. So I think all ideas are equally valid, but I do expect a level of thought put into an idea and will point out "flaws" (contradictions with known lore).

  3. You should've seen how many times I have dropped the Trebbite Monk idea along the way  The original concept was adapted greatly to become what it currently is.

  4. Not if those sources are screaming "propaganda"

  5. With that division, I would prefer to stay away from theology  Gods in ES just don't interest me much 

  6. I definitely don't suggest doing something you don't have a heart for. Like I said, the group is good as it is for me. Personally, I prefer Kyn's style  As for the themes, I would love to see more of "how the world works" and less of "who created the world" 

  1. There is a distinct difference for me when working on a character backstory or a whole faction. A character can be an exception of general lore to an extent due to his backstory but when there are multiple characters like this - it stretches it. For your example, a Nord from High Rock doing Bretony things is perfectly fine, a faction of Nords in High Rock doing Bretony things less so. Especially with no record of them.

  2. I don't try to force my views on others and think everyone's ideas are equally valid, especially since it all comes to interpreting lore facts. So I think all ideas are equally valid, but I do expect a level of thought put into an idea and will point out "flaws" (contradictions with known lore).

  3. You should've seen how many times I have dropped the Trebbite Monk idea along the way  The original concept was adapted greatly to become what it currently is.

  4. Not if those sources are screaming "propaganda"

  5. With that division, I would prefer to stay away from theology  Gods in ES just don't interest me much 

  6. I definitely don't suggest doing something you don't have a heart for. Like I said, the group is good as it is for me. Personally, I prefer Kyn's style  As for the themes, I would love to see more of "how the world works" and less of "who created the world" 

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  May 31, 2016

  Hey Hannibal, thanks for taking the time to answer and for the lift your words give us/me 

  1. Interesting stuff, remind me: have you made a profile for him yet? Link me if so. It seems that you can really see the hazy border which is lore and RP. Like, because of the in character way in which lore is delivered rather than the codex style of other IPs, there is a real grey boundary between where RP starts and lore ends.

  2. I like this. There are normally enough patterns to fill the gaps, enough clues to make an intuitive guess. That intuitive guess is where I enjoy lore the most 

  3. Oof. Talos. Complicated 

  4. You are right. The only difference is familiarity, not academic knowledge. Interpreting the sources is where it all starts, rarely do we get told what is "right or wrong". Plus, the lore is so vast that even a loremaster cannot hope to master it all. A friend of mine recently gave an interpretation of a puzzle I have been pondering for a long time. There is room in lore for everyone.

  5. Good 

  6. Ok, so you are the second to mention a more dynamic approach, less formal than an article or book. Karver and I will look into it.

  Hey Hannibal, thanks for taking the time to answer and for the lift your words give us/me 

  1. Interesting stuff, remind me: have you made a profile for him yet? Link me if so. It seems that you can really see the hazy border which is lore and RP. Like, because of the in character way in which lore is delivered rather than the codex style of other IPs, there is a real grey boundary between where RP starts and lore ends.

  2. I like this. There are normally enough patterns to fill the gaps, enough clues to make an intuitive guess. That intuitive guess is where I enjoy lore the most 

  3. Oof. Talos. Complicated 

  4. You are right. The only difference is familiarity, not academic knowledge. Interpreting the sources is where it all starts, rarely do we get told what is "right or wrong". Plus, the lore is so vast that even a loremaster cannot hope to master it all. A friend of mine recently gave an interpretation of a puzzle I have been pondering for a long time. There is room in lore for everyone.

  5. Good 

  6. Ok, so you are the second to mention a more dynamic approach, less formal than an article or book. Karver and I will look into it.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  June 1, 2016

  There are things here, insights which I like very much  Thanks for replying to my reply of your reply 

  Point a) troubles me a little, but is easily rectified. The new RP/Lore event could do wonders for helping LG be more visible. 

  Point b) I simply do not get. But ok.  Possibly I was like that in my younger days, but even then if I didn't know the mechanics of something I would go to Teccam or Alastor. I remember shooting Vix, Ky and Kyne multiple questions. 

  Point c) Tottaly expresses my concerns. If someone has gone through all that research and learned something new, why is that research confined to a build? Many people supplement a build with an RP profile. Why would supplementing it with a lore article be any different? Chances are most of the work is already in the build so it could be a simple case of copy/paste plus extra elaboration, with the added benefit of putting that art which didn't make the cut to good use.

  Why does that not make perfect sense? What are the reasons why that isn't already a thing? If those same people gave us a chance, they would see we aren't all bad and that their contribution here is in no way irrelevant.

  The interaction you and I had was very enjoyable. I don't know it all but I do have long familiarity with the sources and can interpret multiple sources very quickly. It is in no way different to asking a librarian what books one should read about___ In addition, it was by brainstorming with you that I found the (back then) new lore about the orcs. I likely would not have learned it had you not gotten in touch. So it was a reciprocal thing and I like to think it forged a bond too 

  Hmm, good point about ego. I regret the use of the word  Self esteem would have been better. To admit what one considers a weakness is hard as we are all our own worst enemies. Yet those very same people might fail to notice how I look up to them. You, Shinjin, are among the best builders here. Do you imagine I judge you on your lore or on your builds? Your projects are a damned inspiration. How could I not look up to you?  To say I played a small part in one is a privilege, not a condemnation of your talents. 

  Yeah, we do delve deep here and we enjoy it. It helps us from consensus on what otherwise is pure interpretation. Yet there is also room for character-level lore. Like, how your character sees the world based on your understanding of it is no different to how it us presented to us. Remember that book, "Alduin is Real and He Ent Akatosh"? One of the best damn books in the game in my opinion and it is all in character. Why should your character's views be any less valid than Thromgar Iron-Head's? I would love to see more of that in universe interpretation. It is inspirational 

  There are things here, insights which I like very much  Thanks for replying to my reply of your reply 

  Point a) troubles me a little, but is easily rectified. The new RP/Lore event could do wonders for helping LG be more visible. 

  Point b) I simply do not get. But ok.  Possibly I was like that in my younger days, but even then if I didn't know the mechanics of something I would go to Teccam or Alastor. I remember shooting Vix, Ky and Kyne multiple questions. 

  Point c) Tottaly expresses my concerns. If someone has gone through all that research and learned something new, why is that research confined to a build? Many people supplement a build with an RP profile. Why would supplementing it with a lore article be any different? Chances are most of the work is already in the build so it could be a simple case of copy/paste plus extra elaboration, with the added benefit of putting that art which didn't make the cut to good use.

  Why does that not make perfect sense? What are the reasons why that isn't already a thing? If those same people gave us a chance, they would see we aren't all bad and that their contribution here is in no way irrelevant.

  The interaction you and I had was very enjoyable. I don't know it all but I do have long familiarity with the sources and can interpret multiple sources very quickly. It is in no way different to asking a librarian what books one should read about___ In addition, it was by brainstorming with you that I found the (back then) new lore about the orcs. I likely would not have learned it had you not gotten in touch. So it was a reciprocal thing and I like to think it forged a bond too 

  Hmm, good point about ego. I regret the use of the word  Self esteem would have been better. To admit what one considers a weakness is hard as we are all our own worst enemies. Yet those very same people might fail to notice how I look up to them. You, Shinjin, are among the best builders here. Do you imagine I judge you on your lore or on your builds? Your projects are a damned inspiration. How could I not look up to you?  To say I played a small part in one is a privilege, not a condemnation of your talents. 

  Yeah, we do delve deep here and we enjoy it. It helps us from consensus on what otherwise is pure interpretation. Yet there is also room for character-level lore. Like, how your character sees the world based on your understanding of it is no different to how it us presented to us. Remember that book, "Alduin is Real and He Ent Akatosh"? One of the best damn books in the game in my opinion and it is all in character. Why should your character's views be any less valid than Thromgar Iron-Head's? I would love to see more of that in universe interpretation. It is inspirational 

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  June 1, 2016

  Indeed everyone has their own way of fun. But when you are in a community... well, not knowing even a bit of lore, it's like coming to a dinner in a restaraunt not knowing how to use a fork))

  1. No, I am actually quite content with the way how it is. When after Riverwood I came to Whiterun, bruning with a thousand questions, the piles of books in Dragonsreach gave me a wonderful first glimpse into the lore)

  2. Well, I'd rather prefer a discussion where everyone could form theri own opinion rather than just accepting someone's views.

  3. I've been told that this is how a Thalmor would think, but thanks)))

  Indeed everyone has their own way of fun. But when you are in a community... well, not knowing even a bit of lore, it's like coming to a dinner in a restaraunt not knowing how to use a fork))

  1. No, I am actually quite content with the way how it is. When after Riverwood I came to Whiterun, bruning with a thousand questions, the piles of books in Dragonsreach gave me a wonderful first glimpse into the lore)

  2. Well, I'd rather prefer a discussion where everyone could form theri own opinion rather than just accepting someone's views.

  3. I've been told that this is how a Thalmor would think, but thanks)))

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  Member
   

  June 1, 2016

  How do you use lore? When you are involved in a project or are researching a concept, how much does the lore dictate what you can and can't do?

  Lore pretty much dictates everything I do.

  How do you deal with a scenario in which there is a gap in the lore? Is such a gap a restriction or a freedom?

  It's very rare that Elder Scrolls ever has a question with no answers to it. Sure it might seem like that sometimes but there are always hints, rumors or implications about possible answers. You just have to find them and then look at them the right way so that they fit. If I am really stumped and can find nothing then I think up the most interesting answer that feels right to me and run with it. 

  How do you deal with a scenario in which the lore contradicts your original idea?

  Depends on what I find more interesting. If the new contradicting lore is fun then I will try and incorporate it. If not then I just go with my original idea and make it fit, what my character believes is more important to what actually happened. Unless my character is a total Truther .

  Is the depth of setting sometimes too much and off-putting?

  Nope, it's what I'm here for 

  Or are you comfortable navigating Apocrypha's many shelves?

  Yep

  Anything else relevant in terms of how the setting's lore resonates within you. Is there anything you feel would help make The Lore Group more welcoming?

  Honestly not sure, I just read up on something as much as possible and then look at other peoples ideas and opinions on the subject until I form my own opinion.

  Maybe a "How To Study Elder Scrolls Lore" guide? 

  How do you use lore? When you are involved in a project or are researching a concept, how much does the lore dictate what you can and can't do?

  Lore pretty much dictates everything I do.

  How do you deal with a scenario in which there is a gap in the lore? Is such a gap a restriction or a freedom?

  It's very rare that Elder Scrolls ever has a question with no answers to it. Sure it might seem like that sometimes but there are always hints, rumors or implications about possible answers. You just have to find them and then look at them the right way so that they fit. If I am really stumped and can find nothing then I think up the most interesting answer that feels right to me and run with it. 

  How do you deal with a scenario in which the lore contradicts your original idea?

  Depends on what I find more interesting. If the new contradicting lore is fun then I will try and incorporate it. If not then I just go with my original idea and make it fit, what my character believes is more important to what actually happened. Unless my character is a total Truther .

  Is the depth of setting sometimes too much and off-putting?

  Nope, it's what I'm here for 

  Or are you comfortable navigating Apocrypha's many shelves?

  Yep

  Anything else relevant in terms of how the setting's lore resonates within you. Is there anything you feel would help make The Lore Group more welcoming?

  Honestly not sure, I just read up on something as much as possible and then look at other peoples ideas and opinions on the subject until I form my own opinion.

  Maybe a "How To Study Elder Scrolls Lore" guide? 

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  June 5, 2016

  Thanks Vel 

  1. Yeah, know that feeling.

  2. There's a lot to be said for that approach. "If it feels right" is pretty spot on I think.

  3. Interesting thoughts, I like how you can enjoy both sources depending on character outlook. 

  4.

  5. Good.

  6. Hmm. Vaaljorn mentioned similar ideas. I did try a Let's Lore: The Monomyth but was never happy with it. It felt condescending. It is hard to explain. I don't think I can do it.

  Thanks Vel 

  1. Yeah, know that feeling.

  2. There's a lot to be said for that approach. "If it feels right" is pretty spot on I think.

  3. Interesting thoughts, I like how you can enjoy both sources depending on character outlook. 

  4.

  5. Good.

  6. Hmm. Vaaljorn mentioned similar ideas. I did try a Let's Lore: The Monomyth but was never happy with it. It felt condescending. It is hard to explain. I don't think I can do it.