Direnni were powerful. Hoag might've simply been smart enough to take a winner's side Notice how Rislav the Righteous mentions him as xenophobic.
Borgas was someone who could lead. After his death there was no strong ruler and the Moot failed to choose one resulting in the Wars of Succession.
And yes, Nords could've lived long enough before. But there are a lot of factors that added up and resulted in a shorter lifespan. Magic, natural aggressiveness, change of worship...
Edit: Nice tag :P
Direnni were powerful. Hoag might've simply been smart enough to take a winner's side Notice how Rislav the Righteous mentions him as xenophobic.
Borgas was someone who could lead. After his death there was no strong ruler and the Moot failed to choose one resulting in the Wars of Succession.
And yes, Nords could've lived long enough before. But there are a lot of factors that added up and resulted in a shorter lifespan. Magic, natural aggressiveness, change of worship...
Edit: Nice tag :P
It's funny how there may be degrees of xenophobia which other Nords judge each other on. To anyone other than a Nord he could be seen as a racist bastard, but to really right-wing Nords he is seen as too liberal. "The soft hand of Hoag" is forever part of his legacy. I could just have easily used old Wulf making peace with the Orcs as an example, but Merkiller is so much more fun and new people to lore may not be as familiar with him.
I guess the point I was really getting at, inspired by that Nord racial slurs for Bosmer thread, is that it is easy to get carried away with the idea that Nords are blindly prejudiced. It's like, blame them for what they have done, goodness knows there is no need to invent more
I like your point about Borgas, but I think there could be more to it than him being a strong leader. It is clear, though, that even during his reign there was dissatisfaction with "the Shadow of Borgas". The newer pantheon wasn't universally loved. Wulfharth's "fiery reinstatement" of the old religion is telling, I think.
It makes me wonder how much emphasis is put on that Jagged Crown. After Borgas' death, things fell apart swiftly for Skyrim. Is it that the Nords are so loyal to that crown they will follow the wearer even if they may not agree with the policies? Or does the Crown itself hold more power? It seems eerily similar to the Amulet of Kings. Was no one able to directly challenge the wearer of the Crown because they were simply too powerful? Or was it more about respect for what it represented?
The Direnni were indeed powerful but the history is clear that neither side won that battle. Perhaps if Skyrim had remained on the Order's side, the scales of balance would have been different. Either way, we got the Bretons, so yay!
Sorry about the tag... Couldn't help myself.
It's funny how there may be degrees of xenophobia which other Nords judge each other on. To anyone other than a Nord he could be seen as a racist bastard, but to really right-wing Nords he is seen as too liberal. "The soft hand of Hoag" is forever part of his legacy. I could just have easily used old Wulf making peace with the Orcs as an example, but Merkiller is so much more fun and new people to lore may not be as familiar with him.
I guess the point I was really getting at, inspired by that Nord racial slurs for Bosmer thread, is that it is easy to get carried away with the idea that Nords are blindly prejudiced. It's like, blame them for what they have done, goodness knows there is no need to invent more
I like your point about Borgas, but I think there could be more to it than him being a strong leader. It is clear, though, that even during his reign there was dissatisfaction with "the Shadow of Borgas". The newer pantheon wasn't universally loved. Wulfharth's "fiery reinstatement" of the old religion is telling, I think.
It makes me wonder how much emphasis is put on that Jagged Crown. After Borgas' death, things fell apart swiftly for Skyrim. Is it that the Nords are so loyal to that crown they will follow the wearer even if they may not agree with the policies? Or does the Crown itself hold more power? It seems eerily similar to the Amulet of Kings. Was no one able to directly challenge the wearer of the Crown because they were simply too powerful? Or was it more about respect for what it represented?
The Direnni were indeed powerful but the history is clear that neither side won that battle. Perhaps if Skyrim had remained on the Order's side, the scales of balance would have been different. Either way, we got the Bretons, so yay!
Sorry about the tag... Couldn't help myself.
Alessian Order was against everything elven. Guess it went as far as to affect the "compromise" pantheon that Hoag seemed to follow. And when forced to pick a side, he decided to keep his religion by siding with elves. Too bad it didn't work out so well - he died.
I don't think that the Crown has any magical power. I do think that it's a symbol. When the Moot selected a High King, it was usually someone capable of uniting the land and holding power to do so. And after Borgas's death there was no such ruler. The one they chose was deemed unworthy to wear the Crown by the others which resulted in conflict.
Alessian Order was against everything elven. Guess it went as far as to affect the "compromise" pantheon that Hoag seemed to follow. And when forced to pick a side, he decided to keep his religion by siding with elves. Too bad it didn't work out so well - he died.
I don't think that the Crown has any magical power. I do think that it's a symbol. When the Moot selected a High King, it was usually someone capable of uniting the land and holding power to do so. And after Borgas's death there was no such ruler. The one they chose was deemed unworthy to wear the Crown by the others which resulted in conflict.
Wait, wait, what? the Nords didn't follow any sort of elven pantheon. While the Alessian's hated everything elvish, their newly crafted pantheon was radically more like the Elven view of the Aedra than the Nordic.
Wait, wait, what? the Nords didn't follow any sort of elven pantheon. While the Alessian's hated everything elvish, their newly crafted pantheon was radically more like the Elven view of the Aedra than the Nordic.
Derp. It was the opposite, of course. Hoag didn't want to follow the Doctrines and fought against that religion. He even went as far as to fight alongside elves to keep his beliefs. His successor was quick to continue Hoag's work by banning the Doctrines.
Derp. It was the opposite, of course. Hoag didn't want to follow the Doctrines and fought against that religion. He even went as far as to fight alongside elves to keep his beliefs. His successor was quick to continue Hoag's work by banning the Doctrines.
It looks like the Moot is a result of Borgas' death and didn't exist previously. After the War of Succession the Crown of Verity was forged to settle the disputes of power. According to Galmar:
Going way back to King Harald's time or even before, the High King always wore the Jagged Crown. It was the symbol of his might and power. The crown is made from the bones and teeth of ancient dragons, and it is said to contain a portion of the power of every king who has worn it.
After losing a magical crown the Nords set to work to forge another magical crown to replace it seems too coincidental to me.
It could be argued that Galmar's words also lend support to the idea Borgas was followed because he was loved:
Think about it. The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before jarls and moots. Back to the time when a king was a king because his enemies fell before him, and his people rose because they loved him.
But I don't buy it. He was passionate about the Allesian Order but I can't imagine everyone else in Skyrim was also.
It looks like the Moot is a result of Borgas' death and didn't exist previously. After the War of Succession the Crown of Verity was forged to settle the disputes of power. According to Galmar:
Going way back to King Harald's time or even before, the High King always wore the Jagged Crown. It was the symbol of his might and power. The crown is made from the bones and teeth of ancient dragons, and it is said to contain a portion of the power of every king who has worn it.
After losing a magical crown the Nords set to work to forge another magical crown to replace it seems too coincidental to me.
It could be argued that Galmar's words also lend support to the idea Borgas was followed because he was loved:
Think about it. The Jagged Crown! It heralds back to a time before jarls and moots. Back to the time when a king was a king because his enemies fell before him, and his people rose because they loved him.
But I don't buy it. He was passionate about the Allesian Order but I can't imagine everyone else in Skyrim was also.