Skyrim Tips and Tricks » Discussions

Investigation: The Viability of Combat Pickpocketing

• Halifax

  

  Member
   

  October 27, 2014

  Hi, everyone! I figured that this post might be a little large for the Questions/Requests discussion area, so I've decided to take the plunge and risk (?) posting this little idea of mine over here!

  This is HEAVILY rudimentary work though, so...well...yeah! ( There's your warning? O: )

  =====

  I take it that some of you know about the paralysis pickpocket exploit? To put it in short, when a non-essential humanoid NPC is ragdolled and/or paralyzed in some way or other, there is a small frame of time in which a player may pickpocket all items present on that NPC without being caught - regardless of pickpocket chance and skill. 

  =====

  Typically, I've heard of this used mainly on trainers and the occasional Ebony Warrior cheese...but out of curiosity as well as a few tests of my own, I've decided to test out whether or not pickpocketing with the Perfect Touch perk can prove a viable mid-combat "Strategy" for some more interesting character builds.

  Essentially, the aim is to paralyze / disable a target mid-battle (i.e. Non-stealthily), and quickly rip all items, weapons and clothing from them before they can fully "recover". This should disable them from dealing or resisting against any significant damage, more or less taking them out of the fight - and allowing you to put full focus on other enemies in the area instead. Poisons may also be forced on downed targets as well, such as magicka damaging / ravaging for mages...but that's a secondary concern for now, at least.

  =====

  Moving on, I've come across some rather...inconsistent results as a result of some minor testing, which I'll split up into 3 "Outcomes" for future reference.

  Certain times, I'll be able to pickpocket all items on an NPC - equipped and unequipped, as planned (Outcome A).

  However, on other occasions I'm only able to pickpocket items not directly equipped on my targets, despite both having the Perfect Touch perk, and them being nonessential (Outcome B).

  Finally, I've also seen occasions where attempts to pickpocket an NPC will result in the line "X has already caught you.", despite no prior pickpocket attempt having happened (Outcome C).

  I'm not yet certain as to why this happens - or whether or not these outcomes remain under my control.

  =====

  So far, I've tested this "strategy" out using these means of paralysis:

  • Windshear bashing
  • Ash Shell 
  • Shield Charge (Not sure if I messed up, but shield bashing with a paralysis enchanted weapon also had a paralysis chance? Might look into that again later.)
  • Paralysis Enchantment

  Personally, I believe I've had the most successes (Outcome A) with the Ash Shell spell, though I'm afraid I have no numbers to show for it. This MAY be due to the target exiting combat a la the spell's nature...however that may supposedly affect it. This isn't to say that outcomes B and C weren't experienced, of course. Those came up too.

  Paralysis enchantments, as well as Windshear bashing supposedly gave me plenty more of Outcome B, though as usual, the other outcomes were also present. Furthermore, I've found that the paralysis enchantment's unreliability isn't quite as pleasant for this purpose - especially when one is swarmed by guards . 

  Also, I...no longer remember the results of my shield charge attempts, but I believe them to be similar to the previous paragraph.

  ANYWAY.

  That being said, I've yet to test these other options out:

  • Unrelenting Force 
  • Ice form
  • Whirlwind Cloak
  • Cyclone (Shout)
  • Paralysis spell (10 second one, doesn't remove target from combat unlike Ash Rune/Shell)
  • Ash Rune (Probably similar in effectiveness to Ash Shell)
  • The Serpent Stone (Thanks for the reminder, Alastor!)

  ...And if they have any effect whatsoever on success chance. I'll be trying these myself soon (Hopefully soon, anyway), but I'd also appreciate if anyone else could share any information with me if they've tried this before at some point. 

  =====

  Also, I have a slight suspicion that the Shadow Warrior perk in the sneak tree could help with pickpocket chances in the middle of combat. I unfortunately had the perk for the duration of my largely unprofessional tests though, so...once again, I can't say for sure. Sorry . 

  Lastly, I've also a suspicion that timing matters in this method, and that the different results I've experienced may have something to do with the time I've "activated" the downed NPC, and/or whether or not I've been mashing button beforehand. Of course, I may be entirely wrong with all this, and this could all be related to the way the target's landed...but...well...

  ....If you've got any information on this, I most certainly would love to know! And whilst I'm at it, I'd also like to apologize for the largely circumstantial suggestions I've provided here as well. I just figured I'd throw in my own results too, just in case they may prove useful to any of you O:

  Hi, everyone! I figured that this post might be a little large for the Questions/Requests discussion area, so I've decided to take the plunge and risk (?) posting this little idea of mine over here!

  This is HEAVILY rudimentary work though, so...well...yeah! ( There's your warning? O: )

  =====

  I take it that some of you know about the paralysis pickpocket exploit? To put it in short, when a non-essential humanoid NPC is ragdolled and/or paralyzed in some way or other, there is a small frame of time in which a player may pickpocket all items present on that NPC without being caught - regardless of pickpocket chance and skill. 

  =====

  Typically, I've heard of this used mainly on trainers and the occasional Ebony Warrior cheese...but out of curiosity as well as a few tests of my own, I've decided to test out whether or not pickpocketing with the Perfect Touch perk can prove a viable mid-combat "Strategy" for some more interesting character builds.

  Essentially, the aim is to paralyze / disable a target mid-battle (i.e. Non-stealthily), and quickly rip all items, weapons and clothing from them before they can fully "recover". This should disable them from dealing or resisting against any significant damage, more or less taking them out of the fight - and allowing you to put full focus on other enemies in the area instead. Poisons may also be forced on downed targets as well, such as magicka damaging / ravaging for mages...but that's a secondary concern for now, at least.

  =====

  Moving on, I've come across some rather...inconsistent results as a result of some minor testing, which I'll split up into 3 "Outcomes" for future reference.

  Certain times, I'll be able to pickpocket all items on an NPC - equipped and unequipped, as planned (Outcome A).

  However, on other occasions I'm only able to pickpocket items not directly equipped on my targets, despite both having the Perfect Touch perk, and them being nonessential (Outcome B).

  Finally, I've also seen occasions where attempts to pickpocket an NPC will result in the line "X has already caught you.", despite no prior pickpocket attempt having happened (Outcome C).

  I'm not yet certain as to why this happens - or whether or not these outcomes remain under my control.

  =====

  So far, I've tested this "strategy" out using these means of paralysis:

  • Windshear bashing
  • Ash Shell 
  • Shield Charge (Not sure if I messed up, but shield bashing with a paralysis enchanted weapon also had a paralysis chance? Might look into that again later.)
  • Paralysis Enchantment

  Personally, I believe I've had the most successes (Outcome A) with the Ash Shell spell, though I'm afraid I have no numbers to show for it. This MAY be due to the target exiting combat a la the spell's nature...however that may supposedly affect it. This isn't to say that outcomes B and C weren't experienced, of course. Those came up too.

  Paralysis enchantments, as well as Windshear bashing supposedly gave me plenty more of Outcome B, though as usual, the other outcomes were also present. Furthermore, I've found that the paralysis enchantment's unreliability isn't quite as pleasant for this purpose - especially when one is swarmed by guards . 

  Also, I...no longer remember the results of my shield charge attempts, but I believe them to be similar to the previous paragraph.

  ANYWAY.

  That being said, I've yet to test these other options out:

  • Unrelenting Force 
  • Ice form
  • Whirlwind Cloak
  • Cyclone (Shout)
  • Paralysis spell (10 second one, doesn't remove target from combat unlike Ash Rune/Shell)
  • Ash Rune (Probably similar in effectiveness to Ash Shell)
  • The Serpent Stone (Thanks for the reminder, Alastor!)

  ...And if they have any effect whatsoever on success chance. I'll be trying these myself soon (Hopefully soon, anyway), but I'd also appreciate if anyone else could share any information with me if they've tried this before at some point. 

  =====

  Also, I have a slight suspicion that the Shadow Warrior perk in the sneak tree could help with pickpocket chances in the middle of combat. I unfortunately had the perk for the duration of my largely unprofessional tests though, so...once again, I can't say for sure. Sorry . 

  Lastly, I've also a suspicion that timing matters in this method, and that the different results I've experienced may have something to do with the time I've "activated" the downed NPC, and/or whether or not I've been mashing button beforehand. Of course, I may be entirely wrong with all this, and this could all be related to the way the target's landed...but...well...

  ....If you've got any information on this, I most certainly would love to know! And whilst I'm at it, I'd also like to apologize for the largely circumstantial suggestions I've provided here as well. I just figured I'd throw in my own results too, just in case they may prove useful to any of you O:

• Alastor

  

  Member
   

  October 27, 2014

  Excellent post and great discoveries/questions Halifax. I've used some of the related methods myself but not extensively in battle. From my experience there are alot of factors that aren't apparent as you've discovered yourself. When I used the Paralyze/Pickpocket method it was to take the Glass Bow of the Stag Prince from an NPC on Solstheim. I used the Serpent Stone to paralyze him and take his goods. I didn't have Shadow Warrior bu it worked fine. I tried again with a paralysis poison and a dagger. He went down but I couldn't steal anything, presumably because we were mid-combat. Shadow Warrior would definitely help out a lot but being in combat is only one factor. I'll have to do some testing myself but this is a good start. Way to think outside the box Halifax :)

  Excellent post and great discoveries/questions Halifax. I've used some of the related methods myself but not extensively in battle. From my experience there are alot of factors that aren't apparent as you've discovered yourself. When I used the Paralyze/Pickpocket method it was to take the Glass Bow of the Stag Prince from an NPC on Solstheim. I used the Serpent Stone to paralyze him and take his goods. I didn't have Shadow Warrior bu it worked fine. I tried again with a paralysis poison and a dagger. He went down but I couldn't steal anything, presumably because we were mid-combat. Shadow Warrior would definitely help out a lot but being in combat is only one factor. I'll have to do some testing myself but this is a good start. Way to think outside the box Halifax :)
• Halifax

  

  Member
   

  October 27, 2014

  Ooh, thanks! Also, I totally forgot about the serpent stone there. Might be a good option for equipment divestment too, since I don't think it flings them away unlike some of the other means listed! =D.

  (I'll add it to the main post after posting this) 

  Good luck on the testing, by the way! I'd love to see this in future things like rogue builds, and the like. Could be used show an astounding in-character mastery of the thieving arts, where a split second of unconsciousness / vulnerability can spell doom for the opponent....ah, but I digress! Thanks again! :)

  Ooh, thanks! Also, I totally forgot about the serpent stone there. Might be a good option for equipment divestment too, since I don't think it flings them away unlike some of the other means listed! =D.

  (I'll add it to the main post after posting this) 

  Good luck on the testing, by the way! I'd love to see this in future things like rogue builds, and the like. Could be used show an astounding in-character mastery of the thieving arts, where a split second of unconsciousness / vulnerability can spell doom for the opponent....ah, but I digress! Thanks again! :)

• Halifax

  

  Member
   

  October 29, 2014

  Minor update: I've been getting more consistent results with Outcome A, by means of activating opponents that are on or past the "almost on one knee" phase when standing up. This works better than if done on completely ragdolled or "downed" opponents, as I've been able to obtain all equipment at once by doing this. Seems almost as if their equipment doesn't "exist" until they're at a certain point in their standing animation...but it's all speculation on my part! :D

  I've also noticed a somewhat decreased "chance" in terms of pickpocketing equipment if you've already taken items from the target beforehand. It seems that it's a matter of taking all of their equips, or nothing at all. It also means that it's going to be more difficult to strip them again if they pick up something else that's lying around after your first divestment. I'd recommend just powerbashing them at this point, seeing that they lack armor anyway).

  Oh, also, mashing buttons when it's way too early (Ragdoll phase) increases the chance of Outcome C for some reason. 

  It's also possible to see less or more of their items if you keep opening and closing their inventory without doing anything...though if it works better if you start doing so during the on-one-knee phase is still unknown. It's still worth trying though, since it's let me strip my targets eventually more often than not, giving you multiple "tries" in a very short amount of time.

  Please note that all this testing has been done with shield charge and shadow warrior. I feel like my chances increase if I activate shadow warrior right before pickpocketing them (That is, crouching by them only when I want to pickpocket) rather than just crouchwalking towards them. Of course, this might just be fluke talking, at this point so do take that with a grain of salt!). Standing out of eyesight might also help, but I've done this in front of them a good number of times as well. Shield charge is also a great way to close the gap between you and your ragdolled target, by the way. Just thought I should mention it <3.

  Lastly...does anyone know about the weird sneak bashing trick? It's actually possible to shield charge in sneak mode and still remain stealthed, which could be an interesting exploit in itself. There's also a bash roll that can be done, but I haven't quite mastered how that works just yet. It does exist, though....and it seems awfully helpful as well. I've managed to get off a couple Outcome A results from it, and it's really nice to maintain momentum in sneak mode with the charge, seeing that it puts you into an easy pickpocket position. 

  To STOP sneak charging though, you'll have to hold down your block button for a bit of time. May prove clumsy depending on...er...circumstances? O:

  Minor update: I've been getting more consistent results with Outcome A, by means of activating opponents that are on or past the "almost on one knee" phase when standing up. This works better than if done on completely ragdolled or "downed" opponents, as I've been able to obtain all equipment at once by doing this. Seems almost as if their equipment doesn't "exist" until they're at a certain point in their standing animation...but it's all speculation on my part! :D

  I've also noticed a somewhat decreased "chance" in terms of pickpocketing equipment if you've already taken items from the target beforehand. It seems that it's a matter of taking all of their equips, or nothing at all. It also means that it's going to be more difficult to strip them again if they pick up something else that's lying around after your first divestment. I'd recommend just powerbashing them at this point, seeing that they lack armor anyway).

  Oh, also, mashing buttons when it's way too early (Ragdoll phase) increases the chance of Outcome C for some reason. 

  It's also possible to see less or more of their items if you keep opening and closing their inventory without doing anything...though if it works better if you start doing so during the on-one-knee phase is still unknown. It's still worth trying though, since it's let me strip my targets eventually more often than not, giving you multiple "tries" in a very short amount of time.

  Please note that all this testing has been done with shield charge and shadow warrior. I feel like my chances increase if I activate shadow warrior right before pickpocketing them (That is, crouching by them only when I want to pickpocket) rather than just crouchwalking towards them. Of course, this might just be fluke talking, at this point so do take that with a grain of salt!). Standing out of eyesight might also help, but I've done this in front of them a good number of times as well. Shield charge is also a great way to close the gap between you and your ragdolled target, by the way. Just thought I should mention it <3.

  Lastly...does anyone know about the weird sneak bashing trick? It's actually possible to shield charge in sneak mode and still remain stealthed, which could be an interesting exploit in itself. There's also a bash roll that can be done, but I haven't quite mastered how that works just yet. It does exist, though....and it seems awfully helpful as well. I've managed to get off a couple Outcome A results from it, and it's really nice to maintain momentum in sneak mode with the charge, seeing that it puts you into an easy pickpocket position. 

  To STOP sneak charging though, you'll have to hold down your block button for a bit of time. May prove clumsy depending on...er...circumstances? O:

• Halifax

  

  Member
   

  October 29, 2014

  Hm. Found that sneak bashing's quite pleasant if you lightly tap the forward, run and block keys (multiple times for the block key, in rapid succession) in sneak mode. If lightly done, you can start and stop the bash without moving far at all, whilst still glowing green and knocking the people surrounding you into all sorts of fun places. Still haven't mastered the bash roll yet though.

  Also, found that success chance is fairly high when doing this, even when not using shadow warrior - so long as you activate them in the middle of their standing animation rather than right away. 

  Hm. Found that sneak bashing's quite pleasant if you lightly tap the forward, run and block keys (multiple times for the block key, in rapid succession) in sneak mode. If lightly done, you can start and stop the bash without moving far at all, whilst still glowing green and knocking the people surrounding you into all sorts of fun places. Still haven't mastered the bash roll yet though.

  Also, found that success chance is fairly high when doing this, even when not using shadow warrior - so long as you activate them in the middle of their standing animation rather than right away.