Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Dan Hideki

  

  • 5 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 8:27 AM EST

  Hi, I'm Dan.

  First, as said in the title, I am new to Elder Scrolls and have a couple of questions:

  All this freedom of choice kind of made me feel like my very first character was gimped. Well, that feeling probably came because I started with the one-hand idea, then sort of changed mind to archery/sneak combo.

  Well, my character went as far as level 14, but since I wasn't really enjoying her skill set/looks I decided to just start over since I didn't go too far anyway.

  So now, I re-did the character, and wrote down that she was to use one handed, focus harder on sneak and the bow would be only for distraction purposes. Well, maybe is soon to tell but I am having a far more 'challenging' experience than my previous one which I'm not sure is right.

  You see, my new character is lvl 11, with 51 sneak and 39 one hand (I had 1 spare perk point into light armor). And, while I'm new at Skyrim, I do play videogames for about 15 years so I could say I'm not exactly clueless. The problem is that dungeons are TOO easy until the boss, and last boss fight I had to start over almost 10 times cause that damned orc would 'cinematic' kill me if I took one wrong step (it was what I think to be boss of the Halted Stream Camp).

  On my first character I can't really recall that fight being half as troublesome (though I understand that without the sneak advantage where my perks are allocated my character was pretty much perkless for that fight).

  Anyway, while doing the climb to High Hrothgar this second time, wildlife seemed a lot tougher, which makes me wonder if NPCs scales and how would that work. Sneaking past a frosty sabre cat and then run into an ice troll was most definetely not fun.

  Btw, another question: for character concept and 'style' reasons, I don't have my character wear a helmet, and she fights one handed without shield (wearing fur armor/boots/bracers, with a cheap refinement). Would that be THE reason for melee fight weakness or that ammount of extra armor (shield+helm) wouldn't make that much difference?

• Buffalo Bill

  

  • 4 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 8:59 AM EST

  Hey Dan, Im Bill. First off, Id say if you are finding anything way too easy, you need to up the difficulty. Secondly, if you find yourself getting into a lot of melee fights, a shield is a must if you arent utilising magic, fighting a dragon toe to toe will soon find you in its mouth. If I were you, try upping your smithing skill and getting some decent armour, then tempering and tweaking it with enchantments etc. Plus, if you are adamant you arent wearing a helmet, get some spells like oakflesh to further boost your defensiveness. But Id say a shield was top of your list, either that or getting a war axe in the other hand to smoke your enemy before he gets you.

• Dan Hideki

  

  • 5 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 9:11 AM EST

  So helm/shield makes that much difference... Another question is how those numbers work?

  Say, if it says I have 30 damage, how does that work against someone with 30 (can't really recall accurate armor values) defense?

  And by too easy I meant all the way up to the boss when it gets near impossible. That bandit chief orc I mentioned, not accounting all tries, took some good minutes to take down. And well, not that hard except for the fact I couldn't mess up once or I'd very likely get that hammer of his switching places with my skull (going one handed sword made it easy to dodge his swings).

  Well, shield goes against any idea I  have for sneakness, even if I aggree that a dodgy swordfight/dagger style somewhat odd in this nordic setting.

  Btw, I'm playing 'adept' difficulty setting. How harder does it get on hard and the one after it?

  Would it be a bit harder, or a whole new level of harder?

  Thinking of it now, I'm not saying actually having to try to beat that guy wasn't fun (in fact it added to immersion, actually caring about being hit) but I was worried it was kinda too hard for something that early and somewhat meaningless in the game. Just wasn't sure if I broke my character cause then that'd call for another remake.

  Well, thanks for the answer, gonna see how I fit a shield and maybe a fugly hat to the concept I had.

• Donivan

  

  • 21 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 9:16 AM EST

  My first question is, what do you have in the other hand?  Destructive magic?  If it's nothing, you really might as well have a sheild.  Or another weapon.

  I'm not a big fan of sneak/stealth, but I do know that if you're going to go that route you should invest fairly strongly in light armor.  Both perks and refinements.  Fur is for the birds...it's crap armor.  Invest a bit in "Agile Defender" (which will increase your armor strength), and invest a little in smithing, to the point where you can craft Elven armor for yourself.  You'll need some refined Moonstone, but you should be able to buy them here and there.  And definitely wear a helmet!  That way you can utilize the "full set" perk which will give your an additional 25% on top of the agile defender increases.  (And if you're rocking Elven armor, the base stat is decent, so the % increases are that much more effective.)

  One big problem with making sneak a core tactic is that you're eventually going to have to fight.  Now, if you get the drop on enemies you can do alot of damage initially witht the 2x bonuses, and whatnot.  (Especially if you poison your arrow ahead of time).  But you won't always get the drop on your enemies, and before you know it you'll need at least SOME raw fighting skills.  One-handed is a good start, but you need to focus more on armor.

  Also, if at all possible, enchant your armor with health upgrages.

• Donivan

  

  • 21 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 9:35 AM EST

  You dont have to have the sheild equipped at all times.  Leave it unequipped when you're sneaking around.  But when the sh*t hits the fan, equip that sucker up!  (Make your sheild a "favorite").

  I remember that Orc from the Halted Stream Camp, and he was tough!  Even with me as a 2-handed fighter.  At early levels, I remember Sabre Cats and Bears being harder to take down than Dragons.  I remember one cave with a Sabre Cat and 2 Spriggans that just owned me.

  But, as you level up, get more health, have better equipment and perks, you'll start kicking a$$ yourself.  Nowadays, I'm level 42 with a full set of enchanted legendary glass armor, a legendary enchanted greatsword, Jordis (Solitude housecarl) to back me up, powerful restoration magic and Frost Atronachs at my disposal.  Let's just say I don't worry about Bears and Orcs.  ;-)

• Tygravius

  

  • 577 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 9:57 AM EST

  Hey man! First of all, welcome to The Scrolls! (and the blog I assume? good people here)

  I play full on stealth/sneak and bow with light armor. As Donivan said get rid of that fur. I'm sure you lady character looks hot, but it won't do shit to protect her beautiful face. ha!! I don't think I ever wore heavy armor. Maybe at the very beginning with picking up Stormcloak/Imperial armor. Then I got some leather armor and did some upgrades with it. I actually wore leather for a long time. Then of course as you level up, the loot you find levels with you and I started finding better light armor; elven, glass, etc. with enchaments already included. Definatly were a helmet. At first all your armor won't match and that's totally fine. But as stated here, once you get the perk for match armor, it's awesome. If you go light armor route, hit up Theives Guild in Riften for a taylor made suit for ya. That's the beauty of the Scrolls! there's really no right or wrong. I've log in 150hrs and  I still debate myself and find new ways how I can improve myself. Especially with what I have already in my inventory (I know I have some shit that will make me a better player right under my nose, I just haven't figured it out yet how to find the right combo. haha) whatever.

  As for my bow, I'm constantly in croutch/sneak mode when entering caves/towers/dungeons etc. It helps up your sneak quick early in the game doing so. And I like to "soften" them up with a couple bow shots first. Use some frostbite venom. There's TONS of it in Skyrim. That will usually get half there health down. By the time they get to you, finish with onehanded action or destruction.

  In the early stages I notice there was some dungeons/caves that I wasn't ready for. Too difficult. Had to abort till later. ha!! Thought that was cool though, giving me a little lashing saying "no dude, go get some skills before entering here my friend".

  I play on Adept also. I don't need every encounter with something to be a "boss" like battle. To me, that's not fun. If I can one hit something, that's cool. I think the game has a good proportional of boss fights to regular folks. Oh, and I haven't used sheild at all. No reason why, it just didn't appeal to me. I try to avoid close combat if possible. that's how I roll. Cheers and good luck!! T

• Dan Hideki

  

  • 5 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 10:05 AM EST

  Other hand empty for one handed block purposes. Eh, not like I block that much, is more for the bash which works like a charm when I time it right. I found out that trading swings will get both hit, but if I block-> bash I can interrupt normal attacks and get time for a power attack while they stumble.

  Oh bummer, kinda liked fur armor design and I thought maybe skill and perks would make up for it later.

  Which, thinking about it now, does weight affect movespeed? I'm under the impression I read somewhere how you can't backpedal out of trouble (and it's somewhat true), but as it's been working for me up to this point is that I can 'dodge' most two hander attacks by backpedaling and people with one handers can be bashed in the face so they get their move interrupted.

  And I totally agree that once the fight is all open the 8 or so perks in sneak are as good as 0.

  Well, the 'no-helmet' part of my concept's been keeping me from going further into light armor tree mostly because of the set part of it.

  It seems the lightweitght agile-fighting concept isn't going to work as I planned. Well, it's not like I'd be stealthing up people to slit their throats all the time, as I had one-handed sword or axe planned in the near future as a backup plan. Which happens to be something I've also been doing... sneak up someone, stab them in the back and draw a sword to fight it's partner(s).

  Man, reading this discussion does take me back to when World of Warcraft Rogues could best anyone naked with poor quality daggers o.O

• Ben

  

  • 1 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 10:12 AM EST

  I'd echo Buffalo's point- you are putting your character at somewhat of a disadvantage, particualrly using a sword and no shield. I would suggest either levelling up your block skill or dual wielding weapons. You should be ok with fur / hide armour, although upgrading at a smithy with help.

  Essentially if you are not using block and are limiting the quality of your armour you'll need to focus on dealing lots of damage, quckly.

• Dan Hideki

  

  • 5 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 10:27 AM EST

  Alright, thanks for all replies, I guess my thief isn't beyond salvation ;p. To be honest I think now I should've done more testing to figure how much each part of combat comes into play. Well, I had the first test character and after doing some reading I guess I just assumed that could work.

  It kind of did I guess, I did kill that orc after all, but thinking again it does sound I was making some sort of ninja and trying to go head on against dudes in plates and greatswords... without them ninja moves =P. It's funny cause if it was for real one hit would also probably all it took to get the ninja ko'ed.

  Gonna test new stuff when I get home, but Donivan's comment kinda made me wonder (and it would be nothing new in this kind of game): does it get too easy in the late parts of the game?

  You know, those games where you rush head on against an army knowing there is no chance of being scratched is sort of immersion breaking. I know that running from that ice troll was about the most immersive experience I had with games in years.

• Buffalo Bill

  

  • 4 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 10:38 AM EST

  I found the game too easy to begin with and stuck it straight to adept but then moved it up again when I got my daedric armour to legendary. Like tygravius, I enter dungeons and caves in sneak mode and fire off some arrows before charging in (shield and sword!) to do some damage. The beauty of these games is to make them your own, if you want to go ninja, get a kick ass bow, poison it and a dagger and really refine them so it only takes one or two hits, no matter the difficulty. My mate is playing a total mage character and through the perks, his armour rating is better than mine and hes kicking about in a dress! Go figure. But for my first playthrough I wanted a tank and got one so dont worry about how your thief is turning out, thats part and parcel of role playing.

• Donivan

  

  • 21 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 11:25 AM EST

  I started thinking that maybe it was getting too easy, and maybe I should up the difficulty setting from Adept to Expert.  But then, during the Forbidden Legend quest I started getting smacked around again, even with my more powerful character & allies.  (I had to quaff a bunch of health and stamina potions to keep up, which I haven't had to do in a while).

  To address one of your earlier questions Dan, yes, the game does level up the enemies to you.  Not in a seamless, 1-1 kind of way like in Oblivion, but in more of a staggered way like in Fallout 3.  I realize you're new to TES, but the basic idea is that some dungeons are meant to be difficult, some easy, and Skyrim adjusts the dungeon-difficulty level based on your character's level.  I've also read that the difficulty level for any particular dungeon is set firmly in place the first time you visit it.  So.....after 10 more levels if you went back to Halted Steam Camp, you'd kick butt.  That means though, that even as you get more powerful, when you enter a NEW dungeon, you're likely to find some challenging opponents.  In that Forbidden Legend quest, I came across some draugr that were using Unrelenting Force shouts on me!

  I'm basically of the same mindset as Tygraviuis - I don't want every fight to feel like a boss level fight.  I like the sense of becoming more powerful, and it's gratifying to be able to smoke a Sabre Cat with 1-3 swings.  But it definitely gets the juices flowing to have a serious boss level fight where I NEED my Atronachs, and NEED Jordis to draw enemies away from me.

• Mason

  

  • 739 posts
   

  December 8, 2011 3:18 PM EST

  In regards to the orc at halted stream camp, you should have paid more attention to your surroundings! There are 3 - 4 oil filled lanterns hanging above him, if you shoot them in order from left to right by the time he gets to you he will be burnt to a crisp/dead. 

  As others have said get yourself well armored, shield and helmet will make a big difference, if you insist on going without a helmet your going to have to spend more time on making sure other pieces of armor are top quality by smithing them.

  Also, introduce some magic to your class, conjuration or illusion maybe to give yourself more tactical advantages.  

  Maybe check out some of these character builds for inspiration.

  http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/group/character-building

• Andrew Roberts

  

  • 22 posts
   

  December 9, 2011 12:02 PM EST

  I have a level 38 Sneaking character. I found it best to use the Bow whenever possible while sneaking. most of the low level enemies can be taken out with between 1 and 3 arrows. with the boss's I find it best to Poisin the first arrow and the second if they haven't found you yet. then when they do locate you use a shout like "mark for death" and finish them off with a few swipes of your sword and a shield is definatly worth having when possible.

• Dan Hideki

  

  • 5 posts
   

  December 9, 2011 12:30 PM EST

  Well, I did notice them, just failed to figure they could be used like that.

  I've done a lot of reading about it and got quite some ideas to try from here, but then again, at 11th level I don't really have that many options right now. Bummer I didnt get to play any yesterday night ¬¬. Gonna hook up with girlfriend tonight and tomorrow gotta wake up early for yearly checkup and some sort of business lunch.

  Guess someone's soon to be another Skyrim widow =P.

  Crap, and after all reading I sort of felt like trying so many different character concepts >.>.

  Of those I kinda felt like going all out archery, and a more standard nord with the greatsword and heavy armor (axe also interesting, hammer not so much).

  And then also try that pacifist way I've been reading about... damn game could come with some timebending device.

• Piper Jo

  

  • 80 posts
   

  December 9, 2011 7:49 PM EST

  NPCs do scale, and so do dungeons in general, but each dungeon freezes at the level where you first enter it.  Thus, I always enter a dungeon first time I find it, then leave again, just to freeze it there.

  I find that if I am having a hard time on a boss fight, just change strategy.  Use your power, use a scroll, leave and come back with a companion.  And I love it when I have to do something like that.

• Jack Of Blades

  

  • 6 posts
   

  December 9, 2011 11:26 PM EST

  If your dead set on a sneaky character who uses one hand I suggest using dual daggers my lvl 81 can do 57 damage with 1 dagger not including the 40+ damage in enchantments and with dual Flurry x2 my character does about 300dps plus with the x15 sneak dagger perk and with good enough sneak skill your practically unstopable. plus helmets don't matter when sneaking just enchant your gauntlets and boots with sneaking.

• Jack Of Blades

  

  • 6 posts
   

  December 9, 2011 11:47 PM EST

  (Warning: The following ruins the fun for some people. You've been warned!) If you want to role up a stealth character that can wear anything from your undies to full plate make a speed run thru main quest till you reach highrothgarr (Grey Beards) then when you find them praying sneak behind them and start wailing on them with a dagger or two. You can reach 100 sneak in about 10-20 minutes this way.