Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Lore Article: The Importance of Talos

Tags: #Phil  #Lore: Historical Figures  #Lore: Metaphysics 
  • Member
    January 1, 2016

    So, he's basically Gilgamesh, whose story I know a bit of, mixing in with Ahnold's terminator? That's an interesting description.

    Also, Alkosh vs Pelinal would be quite funny

  • Member
    January 1, 2016

    I know nothing about Gilgamesh. Guess I ought to do some reading

  • Member
    January 1, 2016

    From what I recall, and I might be wrong, but Gilgamesh sought immortality/godhood, and undetook trials to do so

  • January 1, 2016

    Gilgamesh is a pretty great story, but I like the one about Darmok and Jilad.

  • Member
    January 1, 2016

    Fantastic work. Even though some concepts are still confusing to me, I think you really showed me the importance of Talos. I figured the Heresy was true because that's how it was in ES: Redguard.

  • Member
    January 1, 2016

    Thank you Ragnar Steez, I appreciate that  I saw your lore questions and will try and get to them later if nobody beats me to it. It's cool that this article has made you ask questions. I haven't played ES: Redguard so if there is any insight you can offer it would be very helpful.

    I can't believe I forgot to add another source linking Arctus with Shezarrines. Mannimarco, in the book Where Were You When The Dragon Broke, said:

    "The Three Thieves of Morrowind could tell you where they were. So could the High King of Alinor, who was the one who broke it in the first place. There are others on this earth that could, too: Ysmir, Pelinal, Arnand the Fox or should I say Arctus?

    Is Hans the Fox, a Shezarrine mentioned in Before the Ages of Man also known as Arnand? Is Hans short for Arnand?

  • January 1, 2016

    I have no problems with it, but I am okay with multiple kinds of stuff. I had to explain the MK quote because it irked me. So I came up with... 

    Both are dragonborn but I play around with the syllables of the word. 

    Alessia was a Dovah kiin - Dragonborn 

    Then there is the other kind. Dov ah kiin - the hunter. 

    Both are blessed and do great things, but it is the Dov ah kiin that absorbs the souls and actually has the oooo so coveted Dragon soul in a form that is more powerful. Alessia received a promise in my eyes, a covenant from Akatosh and perhaps a lesser thing in the form of a shard from Akatosh's heart or whateve it is, still significant, but not the same. I have no problems with the differences in my brain. 

    Granted, I don't think even Bethesda picked up on it and the Greybeards when they call you, actually have a silly three syllable pronunciation and put the "v" in the wrong spot. Go listen and you'll be like OMGERD Lis is right, or... had she WAY too much eggnog last night.

    DO VAH KIIN, putting a comical pause in between Do and vah instead of either saying DOVAH or DOV AH. Now for fun with translations, thanks Thu'um.org, kisses for you. Muah, muah. 

    Dov ah kiin - Dragonkind hunter born

    Dovah kiin - Dragonborn

    And... drumroll. What the greybeards are really saying based on the power of phonetics, having listened to them for the better part of five minutes. 

    DO VAH KIIIN - Of Spring Born

    They are heralding somebody born in springtime. The wrong dude went up High Hrothgar. 

  • January 1, 2016

    If heart, blood and soul can be used interchangeably what does that metaphor tell us?

    I'm not sure, but I think they are not exactly the same thing, albeit close. I'd said these are different aspects of the same thing, like different functions.

    And I think I understood the metaphof sbout Pelinal's heart. It says merely that he is a Shezzarine) 

    The diamond shaped heart - Amulet of Kings as the symbol of the Empire is a symbol of divine power. And then there is Pelinal with a diamond shaped hole, the hole there the heart must have been. I.e. Pelinal is (an incarnation of) a god, who lacks his heart - divine power.

    So all this metaphor is about - a divine lacking his divinity.

    Sheogorath is 'born' when Lorkhan's divine spark is removed. One crucial myth calls him the 'Sithis-shaped hole' of the world.

    Hmm, this is interesting. Should study this one more, since I don't really know much about Sheogorath.

    The ghost recognises you as Hjalti not because you are Dragonborn but because you look like his old friend and battle companion from Alcaire. The only way that can happen is if you share Hjati's soul. 

    Do you know why I can't believe that Hjalti was a Shezzarine? First, as I already told earlier, there can't be 3 Lorkhans at the same time. Also Hjalti doesn't seem like a twin brother of Wulfhart (personality-wise), he is another person entirely, while all the other Shezzarines seem one person.

    We don't know what and how exactly ghosts see things. Unless there's some book about it that I missed)

    Yes, Hjalti and the LDB do share the same spirit, the spirit of the same nature, of Akatosh. But the LDB isn't an incarnation of Hjalti. At least because there is no Hjalti anymore, he is now a part of Talos overoul back in Aetherius.

    And we definitely don't know what that ghost would say if he met Miraak, because he never met him. He could as well have said "whoa, there's two Hjaltis" if he met both the PC and Miraak at the same time. We don't know and there is no way to know.

    Pelinal, as I see it, isn't talking about himself. He is merely having a vision about the future, which I don't doubt a Shezzarine could do.

    By the way, I can totally see Lorkhan giving up his heart. Poor dude must have seen that he can involuntalily destroy the world))

    And all this together makes me think that there's actually no hate and no war between Lorkhan and Akatosh, they both know their places in the Creation. Kirkbride's words aside. I'm really confused as to how far and how deep Kirkbride thought the whole thing through.

  • January 1, 2016

    We know Dragonborn do not share the same soul in the most technical sense but we do know that Shezarrines do. 

    Oh really? Do we know that for sure? Why can't the poor Dragon soul be recycled just like the Shezarrine aspect? Again, not a thing I have a problem with, since I separate the Alessian Dragonborns from the Soul-Suckers of history anyway. One soul I think would put a way too cool spin on all of this and goes very nicely with my whole three in one thingy. Imagine Lorkhan, the mortal entity, and a dragon soul all sharing a body. That's so awesomely f'cked up. 

    I'm probably wrong, but who cares? I'm having fun. 

    *smiles broadly*

     

  • January 1, 2016

    I totally agree with you about the Alessians and the Soul-Suckers))) As for the reincarnation, I think there's no definite yes or no answer because it can go both ways.