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Writers Discuss - Dialogue (#13)

  • Member
    September 16, 2015

    Writers Discuss

    Topic #13 – Dialogue

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    Dialogue is a pretty central component when it comes to writing fiction. But what makes some dialogue good and others bad? Why do we enjoy reading dialogue? Let's take some time to discuss this topic.

    Here are some questions to consider:

    What makes good dialogue?

    How can we use other elements of writing to enhance our dialogue?

    What are some dialogue pitfalls?

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    If you have any suggestions for future topics include them in the comments section!

  • September 17, 2015

    I'm gonna try to take a stab at this, though it will be flawed. 

    I like reading dialogue because it is a great way for two or more characters to interact. 

    What makes good dialogue?

    Good dialogue should flow like natural speech, or at least the natural speech that you envision for your particular character. This gives some wiggle room, because not everyone speaks in the same manner and what flows like natural speech can be subjective based on the author's background or goals. It can be used to distinguish dialect and voice or even race, especially with language. Good dialogue can reveal insights into character development and culture. It can convey action, it can convey emotional state, it can move the tale forward. 

    How can we use other elements of writing to enhance our dialogue?

    We just don't stand and stare at each other when we talk to each other. We do things. We move, we have facial expressions, our voices have tones. I read the term blocking in one of the other threads and dialogue can be enhanced by judicious use of blocking. It makes the dialogue less static. We can also use description to enhance dialogue.  

    What are some dialogue pitfalls?

    Off the top of my head? 

    Large blocks of dialogue. Not necessarily large stretches of it, but blocks, where one person is speaking for a long stretch. This stuff needs to be broken up, either with blocking or description. Dialogue can't sound like you're reading, it needs to sound like you're speaking. 

    Voices not matching the character you establish. 

    Voices not matching the overall environment. Like using modern speech idioms in an ancient society or vis versa.Granted, we have some leeway in a fantasy world, but there's a point where the dialogue doesn't make sense in the world. 

    Been a bit distracted with other issues with my narrative, so I apologize if my answer isn't very good. Lol, been dealing with Lore, which may well be a good topic for exploration. How much do we adhere to it? How do we bend it effectively? Bleh, I'm a bit tired of it right now, but could just be my frustrations talking. 

  • Member
    September 17, 2015

    I like the "voices not fitting into the environment" deal. It's been a major pet peeve of mine to be using "dude", "dunno", and even "okay" in a medieval setting. It's so far off. Glad you caught it!

  • Member
    September 17, 2015
    I personally see "dunno" as acceptable in specific situations. For instance, if someone is drunk and slightly slurring words together, that I can understand. "Dude", however, is plain idiotic to have in a TES setting.
  • Member
    September 17, 2015

    TES isn't really medieval, though. I recall that Ralof and Hadvar use the word "tango" during the Helgen encounter with a bear.

    We don't always think about where certain phrases come from, it's true. I'm usually willing to give some leeway to authors when it comes to word usage, particularly when I like their voice.

  • September 17, 2015

    Reply by Okan-Zeeus 34 minutes ago

    TES isn't really medieval, though. I recall that Ralof and Hadvar use the word "tango" during the Helgen encounter with a bear.

    Tangle, Okan, he says tangle, not tango. Oh lord! 

    I'd rather not tangle with her right now. 

  • September 17, 2015

    Dunno is like you said, alright for conveying that mumbly speech typically associated with inebriation or just with mumbling. 

    Also, there is an issue with some of the NPCs in Skyrim and their voices, which allows for more relaxed word choices. Farkas, sounds a bit like an LA surfer dude and Froki Whetted-Blade and Vignar Grey-Mane sound like they belong not in Skyrim but in the Beverly Hillbillies, and Serana's got some funky stuff going on with her accent too. 

    You draw the line somewhere, of course, I typically draw it at dude and okay, girlfriend, boyfriend, dating, that sort of things. I like GOT way of handling speech, if they say it, I'm alright with it, and you get a nice mix. Some are more relaxed, others are more formal. 

  • Member
    September 17, 2015

    +1 for dancing bears

    Skyrim does seem to have some modern / not-medieval concepts though.  Most the religions don't seem as strict or powerful, class mobility seems fairly fluid, women have equal rights, gays are accepted, probably some other stuff. So you could still argue it's not quite medieval. Also, I don't know enough about medieval speech to even attempt writing it.

  • Member
    September 17, 2015

    Dialogue's fun to write, but it can also be really tricky for new writers.

    For me, I see dialogue in writing as an idealization of speech. If you think about it, written dialogue is perfect in a sense. People in writing don't correct themselves, they don't repeat themselves, they don't make mistakes in pronunciation, they don't stutter or say things like "like," "um," and "uh."

    True, we do sometimes use these elements in our dialogue, but it's always done with a purpose. Written dialogue doesn't have to and shouldn't emulate all aspects of speech.

    Here's how I typically tackle writing dialogue:

    Whenever I need to write dialogue for a scene, the first thing I'll come up with is a specific thing that I want a character to say. This is usually an important plot point, an emotional statement, or (even more frequently) the punchline of a joke. 

    From here, I'll retroactively create the conversation so that what the characters say eventually leads to someone saying the line I want them to. Occasionally I'll type out fragments of conversation, which I'll then try to "connect" to each other by transitioning subjects.

    This isn't the only way I do it, of course, and it's not the only way you have to. Sometimes I just let conversations flow on their own and see how they turn out. That's the biggest thing for me - flow. I like dialogue that is fluid and clever.

    There's got to be a logical flow to what the characters are saying. I want to believe that when a person replies to someone in a conversation, they're saying the only thing they could have said in that moment. It should feel like its coming from a character, not from the author.

    Granted, though, it's almost impossible to avoid implementing artifice in dialogue.

    What I mean is this: there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for you to create dialogue that will seem authentic to everyone who reads it. There will always be someone who thinks and interprets differently than you. This is the same reason why there is no such thing as universally good prose.

    Don't believe me? Go look up one star reviews for Hamlet. 

    So there's no real way to ensure that your dialogue is objectively good. But there are ways you can make it BETTER from a technical perspective.

    Here are my biggest tips:

    1) Adjust the speed of the dialogue to suit the needs of the story!

    Speed is primarily controlled by your use of beatsFewer beats means faster dialogue.

    Another way to affect the speed is by varying the length of sentences. If you want your characters to have an intense back and forth argument, for instance, having them speak short sentences one after another is a good way to do this. 

    2) Use your editing phase to make different characters sound different from each other!

    You're almost never going to get ideal dialogue on the first shot. If you want your characters to sound different from each other, the best way to do this is to edit the dialogue in post. Go through and check to see if characters are using similar phrases, words, sentence structure, etc. and make changes accordingly.

    3) Think about WHY your characters are saying the things they're saying, not just surface level!

    Remember, your characters should have history and depth! You're the magician on stage. Your job is to convince readers that your characters have more complexity behind them than they may have in actuality.

    Consider whether or not your characters have certain pet phrases. Why do they say these things? Are there forms of speech your characters are trying to emulate?  What are your characters thinking about as they talk? What emotions or goals are driving the dialogue?

    There's so much more to be said, but I'm getting a little tired of writing this post. I'll leave you all to consider this advice and judge its merits. 

  • Member
    September 17, 2015

    Yup. Can confirm. It's tangle.

    *grumbles in a corner*