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Writers Discuss - Heroes (#2)

• Okan-Zeeus

  

  Member
   

  July 1, 2015

  Writers Discuss

  Topic #2 - Heroes

  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

  This week's discussion is on Heroes. Not protagonists, but heroes! (There’s a difference.) Like before, I’ve got some questions to get you thinking. Answer any of them or just contribute something else relevant to the topic:

  What is a hero?

  What sort of qualities does a hero possess?

  What function does a hero serve in a story?

  Why do we care (or not care) about heroes?

   

  BONUS QUESTION – Is the definition of a hero too pedantic to be useful?

  Writers Discuss

  Topic #2 - Heroes

  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

  This week's discussion is on Heroes. Not protagonists, but heroes! (There’s a difference.) Like before, I’ve got some questions to get you thinking. Answer any of them or just contribute something else relevant to the topic:

  What is a hero?

  What sort of qualities does a hero possess?

  What function does a hero serve in a story?

  Why do we care (or not care) about heroes?

   

  BONUS QUESTION – Is the definition of a hero too pedantic to be useful?

• Ben W

  

  Member
   

  July 1, 2015

  Interesting, Okan

  A hero is one, in my terms, who sacrifices their own needs and places others' needs first. Cheesy stuff like that.

  As many or as few qualities as they wish. Just because someone is a hero doesn't mean they are a good person either :P

  The function they serve in a story is to give the reader, and the people in the story, someone to root for.

  Why do we care (or not). Simple: it's a hero, either you like them, or you don't

  Interesting, Okan

  A hero is one, in my terms, who sacrifices their own needs and places others' needs first. Cheesy stuff like that.

  As many or as few qualities as they wish. Just because someone is a hero doesn't mean they are a good person either :P

  The function they serve in a story is to give the reader, and the people in the story, someone to root for.

  Why do we care (or not). Simple: it's a hero, either you like them, or you don't

• Sotek

  

  Member
   

  July 1, 2015

  I wouldn't say the function for the Hero is to give the reader someone to root for. Take my story U.O.T.W. Most root for Sotek. But is he a hero or just the protagonist? A true hero is unselfish and cares, even fights for those who can't fight themselves. Sotek does that, he even makes a set of clothes for a tramp out of furs. Then again he will kill someone because he feels that persons crimes justifies it. A Hero works within the laws while Sotek would disregard them if he felt it necessary. Yet he's an under dog. Poor skills up against enemies who are stronger and better equipped so readers root for him.

  A true Hero in my opinion IS too pedantic to be useful. Take Superman (Not TES I know but). Imagine if he can't run down the street beyond the 30 speed limit. Or he has to run due to a no fly zone.

  I wouldn't say the function for the Hero is to give the reader someone to root for. Take my story U.O.T.W. Most root for Sotek. But is he a hero or just the protagonist? A true hero is unselfish and cares, even fights for those who can't fight themselves. Sotek does that, he even makes a set of clothes for a tramp out of furs. Then again he will kill someone because he feels that persons crimes justifies it. A Hero works within the laws while Sotek would disregard them if he felt it necessary. Yet he's an under dog. Poor skills up against enemies who are stronger and better equipped so readers root for him.

  A true Hero in my opinion IS too pedantic to be useful. Take Superman (Not TES I know but). Imagine if he can't run down the street beyond the 30 speed limit. Or he has to run due to a no fly zone.

• Daedric Priest

  

  Member
   

  July 1, 2015

  A hero is anyone who stands out in the crowd. While others run away, he runs towards the danger, and I don't mean this literally. Whether he actually has the power to curb the danger is secondary because he inspires, on a large or miniscule level, either by sacrifice or triumph.

  Story wise, I think it depends on the kind of tale, whether it's character driven or story driven. In the former, emphasis needs to be put on distinguishing the hero from the protagonist, if that is the story's purpose.

  A hero is anyone who stands out in the crowd. While others run away, he runs towards the danger, and I don't mean this literally. Whether he actually has the power to curb the danger is secondary because he inspires, on a large or miniscule level, either by sacrifice or triumph.

  Story wise, I think it depends on the kind of tale, whether it's character driven or story driven. In the former, emphasis needs to be put on distinguishing the hero from the protagonist, if that is the story's purpose.

• Sildriel

  

  Member
   

  July 1, 2015

  A hero is a man (or woman; I care little) who disregards their own interest (thus sacrificing these interests or themselves directly) for the sake of others. Aye, it's quite cheesy, and I could go more in depth with that, but I believe it honestly.

  A hero needn't be a "protagonist". They can be a villain, as well as reveal malicious qualities about themselves, but they need to have a sense of morality about them in the end.

  I believe a hero is a gateway to a flood of questions, a challenge to one's morality/worldview. A hero can sometimes make readers feel uncomfortable because their actions can be something that the reader has never done before or never planned(s) to do. It can serve to confuse the reader, or bring a bout of emotions to them.

  We care because heroes can offer us insight to a different viewpoint, or serve as a beacon for our own. Heroes make us cry, make us mad, or make us question ourselves. For the latter, that can force a reader not to care about the hero, because they feel "insulted" or merely uncomfortable with the situation.

  I don't think that it's pedantic, because the definition varies between each person. Aye, there are some similarities, most involving sacrifice, but each is to their own view of heroes and changes dramatically between each. The definition fails to be concrete, and thus not pedantic at all. For example, I may see an American soldier as a true hero, and others would disagree with me. I may see Ulfric Stormcloak as a hero, and many would disagree. I'm not saying that "truth is relative", because it isn't; there is a concrete definition to a hero. But viewpoints obscure that definition. 

  A hero is a man (or woman; I care little) who disregards their own interest (thus sacrificing these interests or themselves directly) for the sake of others. Aye, it's quite cheesy, and I could go more in depth with that, but I believe it honestly.

  A hero needn't be a "protagonist". They can be a villain, as well as reveal malicious qualities about themselves, but they need to have a sense of morality about them in the end.

  I believe a hero is a gateway to a flood of questions, a challenge to one's morality/worldview. A hero can sometimes make readers feel uncomfortable because their actions can be something that the reader has never done before or never planned(s) to do. It can serve to confuse the reader, or bring a bout of emotions to them.

  We care because heroes can offer us insight to a different viewpoint, or serve as a beacon for our own. Heroes make us cry, make us mad, or make us question ourselves. For the latter, that can force a reader not to care about the hero, because they feel "insulted" or merely uncomfortable with the situation.

  I don't think that it's pedantic, because the definition varies between each person. Aye, there are some similarities, most involving sacrifice, but each is to their own view of heroes and changes dramatically between each. The definition fails to be concrete, and thus not pedantic at all. For example, I may see an American soldier as a true hero, and others would disagree with me. I may see Ulfric Stormcloak as a hero, and many would disagree. I'm not saying that "truth is relative", because it isn't; there is a concrete definition to a hero. But viewpoints obscure that definition. 

• Xeelus

  

  Member
   

  July 2, 2015

  I believe that a hero is someone who can be idolized by at least someone. Your hero could be a famous celebrity or an inspiring person who lives down the street. Someone you aspire to be like.

  A hero should be honorable, inspiring, and someone who sets an example of some sort. Heroes are personal and one person's hero could be just a regular person to someone else. They should represent something that you are passionate about. They should be someone who has dedicated time and effort to raise to the top. They earned their place.

  In a story, a hero can be a relatable character that you see some of your personality traits in. Or someone who just stands out to you and does something that you deem heroic. They can spice up a story by being a character that you can personally relate to, or a character that you are inspired by.

  I care about heroes because without good examples in my life, where would I be? Without any goals or people to look up to, what would we aspire to do? Even our heroes have their own heroes.

  I believe that a hero is someone who can be idolized by at least someone. Your hero could be a famous celebrity or an inspiring person who lives down the street. Someone you aspire to be like.

  A hero should be honorable, inspiring, and someone who sets an example of some sort. Heroes are personal and one person's hero could be just a regular person to someone else. They should represent something that you are passionate about. They should be someone who has dedicated time and effort to raise to the top. They earned their place.

  In a story, a hero can be a relatable character that you see some of your personality traits in. Or someone who just stands out to you and does something that you deem heroic. They can spice up a story by being a character that you can personally relate to, or a character that you are inspired by.

  I care about heroes because without good examples in my life, where would I be? Without any goals or people to look up to, what would we aspire to do? Even our heroes have their own heroes.

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  July 2, 2015

  What is a hero?

  In my eyes, a hero is someone who places the needs of others before his/her own. A person, who can, for either an isolated incident or consistently, actually mentally overcome their own biological survival instinct and instead, think on the survival of others or the world. 

  What sort of qualities does a hero possess?

  This is sort of broad now because we have this whole popular "anti-hero" hero thing going on. Like the whole weak "villain is really just misunderstood" concept that irks me in movies to no end now. But I'm sure we'll discuss that next week with our Villain entry. In my eyes, makes for a boring story when everyone is basically the same person, but I digress. 

  In my eyes, for me to really buy that he or she is willing to fulfill the requirements of question one, they have to be driven enough to take action. Heroes are not the sit back and watch things happen type of people. They see that something is not in accordance to their view on the world and they go and do. Whether for good for ill, they do. With almost a blind courage at times. They also usually have incredible willpower. How else would they overcome the inherent biological drive to flee or to not get involved?  Sometimes these qualities only manifest for one incident, sometimes they comprise the permanent makeup of a character. These are the two big characteristics they really need, at least off the top of my head.

  Everything else narrows the definition a bit more and then you risk weeding out examples. Should a hero be good or bad? I tend to prefer that he or she is good because I personally like strong opposing forces in storytelling.  

  The hero in my tale is self-sacrificing to a fault, brave, driven, possesses great integrity, possesses great faith (which is interesting, what makes a character take that weird leap towards selflessness in the first place?), is kind, merciful, and he's  a doer. Cannot sit back and watch, especially when people are suffering, even if it could potentially cost him his own life.

  What function does a hero serve in a story?

  Heroes are movers and shakers. Again, for good or for ill, though in my eyes, it is usually for good, or at least for what they consider good. They tend to bring chaos in their quest to restore order, if that makes any sense, even though chaos may not be their intention. They will tend to have the strongest opinions in a story and as others have said, they make the reader and their supporting characters often uncomfortable because the hero will often ask others to take action and as normal people, they may not want to. On the other hand, heroes, through their actions, often motivate other characters, by example, to take on heroic characteristics. They inspire. 

  Why do we care (or not care) about heroes?

  Well, I think we care about heroes because they do what we are sort of too afraid to do, as designated "normal" people. Through their stories, we see people making this rather uncomfortable sacrifice and that's pretty cool if it's handled well. 

  Is it just me, or do I feel like I'm going to say some similar things when we talk about villains? 

  I have not had nearly enough coffee to attempt the bonus question and I'm pretty sure the other questions were not answered particularly well either. I've been up since about 3:30am. LOL

  What is a hero?

  In my eyes, a hero is someone who places the needs of others before his/her own. A person, who can, for either an isolated incident or consistently, actually mentally overcome their own biological survival instinct and instead, think on the survival of others or the world. 

  What sort of qualities does a hero possess?

  This is sort of broad now because we have this whole popular "anti-hero" hero thing going on. Like the whole weak "villain is really just misunderstood" concept that irks me in movies to no end now. But I'm sure we'll discuss that next week with our Villain entry. In my eyes, makes for a boring story when everyone is basically the same person, but I digress. 

  In my eyes, for me to really buy that he or she is willing to fulfill the requirements of question one, they have to be driven enough to take action. Heroes are not the sit back and watch things happen type of people. They see that something is not in accordance to their view on the world and they go and do. Whether for good for ill, they do. With almost a blind courage at times. They also usually have incredible willpower. How else would they overcome the inherent biological drive to flee or to not get involved?  Sometimes these qualities only manifest for one incident, sometimes they comprise the permanent makeup of a character. These are the two big characteristics they really need, at least off the top of my head.

  Everything else narrows the definition a bit more and then you risk weeding out examples. Should a hero be good or bad? I tend to prefer that he or she is good because I personally like strong opposing forces in storytelling.  

  The hero in my tale is self-sacrificing to a fault, brave, driven, possesses great integrity, possesses great faith (which is interesting, what makes a character take that weird leap towards selflessness in the first place?), is kind, merciful, and he's  a doer. Cannot sit back and watch, especially when people are suffering, even if it could potentially cost him his own life.

  What function does a hero serve in a story?

  Heroes are movers and shakers. Again, for good or for ill, though in my eyes, it is usually for good, or at least for what they consider good. They tend to bring chaos in their quest to restore order, if that makes any sense, even though chaos may not be their intention. They will tend to have the strongest opinions in a story and as others have said, they make the reader and their supporting characters often uncomfortable because the hero will often ask others to take action and as normal people, they may not want to. On the other hand, heroes, through their actions, often motivate other characters, by example, to take on heroic characteristics. They inspire. 

  Why do we care (or not care) about heroes?

  Well, I think we care about heroes because they do what we are sort of too afraid to do, as designated "normal" people. Through their stories, we see people making this rather uncomfortable sacrifice and that's pretty cool if it's handled well. 

  Is it just me, or do I feel like I'm going to say some similar things when we talk about villains? 

  I have not had nearly enough coffee to attempt the bonus question and I'm pretty sure the other questions were not answered particularly well either. I've been up since about 3:30am. LOL

• Teineeva

  

  Member
   

  July 2, 2015

  To me a hero is a complex topic. I will however agree to the most basic (and alas boring) definition of it being a person capable of putting the needs of others before his own, especialy when in dangerous situations.

  I do not believe in heroes, or villains.

  That said I would like to restrict that notion to humans, I can dispend my disbelief when talking about demons, divines, daedra and the rest of their clique. Also my deepest apologies if this little rant of mine impedes on the villain topic, it might.

  To me what makes a Man a hero, is perspective. One does only become a hero because others see him as such. For example in war soldiers can be seen both as heroes and horrible bastards, depending on who you ask. Imagine there is a war between country A and country B, when asked their opinion about the soldiers to a civilian from country A, the soldiers from said country will probably be seen as heroes while the soldiers from country B will be seen as worthless devils and vice-versa.Another example I can think of is one of the more recent incarnations of Spiderman, in the amazing Spiderman films. In these films he is actually quite a dick and has a habit of causing huge amounts of damage and just being a smartass when it comes to the villains (who are basicly villains because they plan to cause more damage than him). He is a hero to the people of the city because he protects them. On the other hand, the authorities probably hate him for being such a wasteful ass.Which helps to prove my point:

  Perspective makes heroes.

  And personally, I intend on following this rule when writing: none of my characters or protagonists are heroes (or villains, once again sorry Okan). Don't mistake them for boring anti-heroes either. To realize this each and every character can be interpreted as heroes (or villains) depending on what information the reader is focusing on.

  To me a hero is a complex topic. I will however agree to the most basic (and alas boring) definition of it being a person capable of putting the needs of others before his own, especialy when in dangerous situations.

  I do not believe in heroes, or villains.

  That said I would like to restrict that notion to humans, I can dispend my disbelief when talking about demons, divines, daedra and the rest of their clique. Also my deepest apologies if this little rant of mine impedes on the villain topic, it might.

  To me what makes a Man a hero, is perspective. One does only become a hero because others see him as such. For example in war soldiers can be seen both as heroes and horrible bastards, depending on who you ask. Imagine there is a war between country A and country B, when asked their opinion about the soldiers to a civilian from country A, the soldiers from said country will probably be seen as heroes while the soldiers from country B will be seen as worthless devils and vice-versa.Another example I can think of is one of the more recent incarnations of Spiderman, in the amazing Spiderman films. In these films he is actually quite a dick and has a habit of causing huge amounts of damage and just being a smartass when it comes to the villains (who are basicly villains because they plan to cause more damage than him). He is a hero to the people of the city because he protects them. On the other hand, the authorities probably hate him for being such a wasteful ass.Which helps to prove my point:

  Perspective makes heroes.

  And personally, I intend on following this rule when writing: none of my characters or protagonists are heroes (or villains, once again sorry Okan). Don't mistake them for boring anti-heroes either. To realize this each and every character can be interpreted as heroes (or villains) depending on what information the reader is focusing on.

• Okan-Zeeus

  

  Member
   

  July 5, 2015

  I think it's high time I gave my two cents on this topic.

  Heroes are individuals who move the action forward in a story. They're the doers, the people who get things done. This is different from a protagonist, who serves as the eyes through which the reader sees the story and also undergoes some sort of change. Protagonists do not have to be heroic.

  I also tend to see heroes as idealized figures. They are people who embody the best attributes of humanity and serve as examples of who we wish we were or want to become. They're the ones trying to do the right thing and we root for them because of it.

  Heroes have to be proficient in something. It may not be the thing that ultimately resolves a story's conflict, but they have to have a degree of competency. This competency is part of what makes them a hero. It wins our admiration. A good hero must have the ability to not only do something but to do it well, or at least better than others.

  For me, Chases-The-Wind is a hero figure. He's skilled, knowledgeable,  empathetic, and strives to be selfless in his actions. I root for him because he is someone I wish I was. DOTE, in my eyes, is a story about heroes. Because I like stories about heroes. I like seeing heroes overcome adversity and seeing how they change in the process.

  Humanity is a story of perseverance, and heroes to me are perseverance personified.

  The reason I brought up the bonus question is mostly because I don't think heroes should ascribe to rigid definitions. Teineeva brought up an excellent point: perspective makes heroes. Depending on your point of view and the information presented, an individual can be seen as either a hero or a villain.

  Heroes don't have a monopoly on heroic actions. Villains can be heroic and heroes can be villainous. What makes a hero a hero is the things they do that others do not. They stand out from the crowd. They're exemplary.

  I think it's high time I gave my two cents on this topic.

  Heroes are individuals who move the action forward in a story. They're the doers, the people who get things done. This is different from a protagonist, who serves as the eyes through which the reader sees the story and also undergoes some sort of change. Protagonists do not have to be heroic.

  I also tend to see heroes as idealized figures. They are people who embody the best attributes of humanity and serve as examples of who we wish we were or want to become. They're the ones trying to do the right thing and we root for them because of it.

  Heroes have to be proficient in something. It may not be the thing that ultimately resolves a story's conflict, but they have to have a degree of competency. This competency is part of what makes them a hero. It wins our admiration. A good hero must have the ability to not only do something but to do it well, or at least better than others.

  For me, Chases-The-Wind is a hero figure. He's skilled, knowledgeable,  empathetic, and strives to be selfless in his actions. I root for him because he is someone I wish I was. DOTE, in my eyes, is a story about heroes. Because I like stories about heroes. I like seeing heroes overcome adversity and seeing how they change in the process.

  Humanity is a story of perseverance, and heroes to me are perseverance personified.

  The reason I brought up the bonus question is mostly because I don't think heroes should ascribe to rigid definitions. Teineeva brought up an excellent point: perspective makes heroes. Depending on your point of view and the information presented, an individual can be seen as either a hero or a villain.

  Heroes don't have a monopoly on heroic actions. Villains can be heroic and heroes can be villainous. What makes a hero a hero is the things they do that others do not. They stand out from the crowd. They're exemplary.

• Okan-Zeeus

  

  Member
   

  July 5, 2015

  Why is it boring for a hero to put the needs of others before himself? Shouldn't we admire individuals who do this? I'm not saying that heroes need to be flawless saints, but when we start calling selfless attributes 'boring' what exactly are we advocating?

  Why is it boring for a hero to put the needs of others before himself? Shouldn't we admire individuals who do this? I'm not saying that heroes need to be flawless saints, but when we start calling selfless attributes 'boring' what exactly are we advocating?