Forums » Elder Scrolls

A discussion on the legitimacy of: Halfbreeds

    • 198 posts
    July 2, 2017 7:57 PM EDT

    Halfbreeds. Do they actually exist within the Elder Scrolls universe? A few examples are known - Vivec, who is Chimer as well as Dunmer - his blue skin and gold skin is a testament to that. Also, Brand-Shei. The Dunmer merchant from Riften may not be Argonian, but he says he was raised one, and his quest backs that up. People who are raised by another race technically counts as a half-breed, doesn't it? 

    Another group of half-breeds are the Bretons, and to a degree, the Reachmen - nords and bretons, together - and they occupy the Hold of Skyrim known as the Reach. I made this discussion to see who are half-breeds - people I didn't know about - as well as to discuss the legitimacy of actual Half-breeds. My current character - Wulf-Blöd, is a khajiit born, but believes himself to be a true nord - sovngarde, death or glory, mead - and he also has traces of werewolf blood within him - not enough to create an actual werewolf out of him, but sort of like he has, I don't know, tendencies that are similar to a werewolf, as well as in appearance and behaviour. I wanted to know whether this was possible, or, failing that, whether it was a real thing for Half-breeds in the Elder Scrolls universe?

    Thanks for answering!

    • 190 posts
    July 2, 2017 8:10 PM EDT

    To be a half breed, you need to be born in a family of different races, being born by a Khajiit mother and raised by a Nord doesn't make one a half breed.

    • 198 posts
    July 2, 2017 8:14 PM EDT

    D3LTAFOX said:

    To be a half breed, you need to be born in a family of different races, being born by a Khajiit mother and raised by a Nord doesn't make one a half breed.

    Thanks for that! I was just trying to clarify that up - however, that's what I meant by that. His dad, a nord werewolf born in windhelm, had some fun times with a Khajiiti thief-lady. There child was a khajiit, but he had inherited traces of his father's blood, which gave him strength like a werewolf and speed. Is this proper, or does it not work roleplay-wise? He's my current character, so I'm really enjoying how he's going so fast.

    Thanks for your answer, anyway!

    • 1424 posts
    July 2, 2017 8:22 PM EDT

    Yeah, so being a half-something from a lore standpoint is pretty much covered by Notes on Racial Phylogeny:

    After much analysis of living specimens, the Council long ago determined that all "races" of elves and humans may mate with each other and bear fertile offspring. Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present. It is less clear whether the Argonians and Khajiit are interfertile with both humans and elves. Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, as well as stories of unions with daedra, there have been no well documented offspring. Khajiit differ from humans and elves not only their skeletal and dermal physiology -- the "fur" that covers their bodies -- but their metabolism and digestion as well. Argonians, like the dreugh, appear to be a semi-aquatic troglophile form of humans, though it is by no means clear whether the Argonians should be classified with dreugh, men, mer, or (in this author's opinion), certain tree-dwelling lizards in Black Marsh.

    The Bretons are quite complicated as, although they started as half breeds, they were then made to only reproduce with each other so that over millenia the elven strain in their blood has been diluted a great deal.

    However, as with all good lore, there are contradictions and cop-out clauses: "Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, as well as stories of unions with daedra, there have been no well documented offspring." That is an invitation, not a limit.

    Also, Vitharn the Fall hints at offspring from an Argonian and human coupling, so there is another get out of jail card. When it comes to telling a story, I reckon lore should never be a shackle. Nothing should stand between an author and his or her tale in my books.

    • 1424 posts
    July 2, 2017 8:48 PM EDT

    I have more to say apparently. The soul upon death goes to it's aligned sphere, so that way the Principalities and the Gods get their pound of flesh. So, for me, any race can go to any afterlife depending upon their actions and beliefs in life.

    So all the above is to say that with Wulf-Blöd I see no issues in your interpretation. He simply is one of those "undocumented" cases, one of life's little rarities ;)

     

    • 145 posts
    July 3, 2017 1:20 AM EDT

    Argonians and khajiit cannot reproduce with men and mer, only with those of their own race. However, men and mer can freely reproduce with each other, I'm not sure what determines which one they come out as though.

    Also, being raised by other races doesn't make one a half-breed. If an argonian was raised by nords does that make him/her a nord? No. They're an argonian and have no nord blood.


    This post was edited by Ebonslayer at July 3, 2017 1:21 AM EDT
    • 1424 posts
    July 3, 2017 3:20 AM EDT

    Ebonslayer said:

    Argonians and khajiit cannot reproduce with men and mer, only with those of their own race. However, men and mer can freely reproduce with each other, I'm not sure what determines which one they come out as though.

    Also, being raised by other races doesn't make one a half-breed. If an argonian was raised by nords does that make him/her a nord? No. They're an argonian and have no nord blood.

    I dunno, Ebon. Vitharn the Fall is a good enough source for me - it's in the lore, unreliable narration plays a part of course, but it's there:

    "and so he allowed the marriage of Csaran to Sheen-in-Glade, daughter of an Argonian midwife... Though Sheen-in-Glade bore a son by the Count (who disappeared from the Isles in his twentieth year), it is known that the two shared their bed with decreasing frequency"

    To say "cannot" based on one source throws up limits to creativity. Wulf's character is half-khajiit on his mother's side, and seeing as canis lupines is a disease of the blood, I don't see why some of that could not be passed down from his Nordic father :)

    • Moderator
    • 703 posts
    July 3, 2017 1:44 PM EDT

    Interesting topic. I've always been fascinated by half-breeds in the TES universe. I've roleplayed a few before and it makes for some cool choices. I only wish we had a few half-breeds in an actual game, that would be neat.

    • 224 posts
    July 3, 2017 2:03 PM EDT

    Paws said:

    Ebonslayer said:

    Argonians and khajiit cannot reproduce with men and mer, only with those of their own race. However, men and mer can freely reproduce with each other, I'm not sure what determines which one they come out as though.

    Also, being raised by other races doesn't make one a half-breed. If an argonian was raised by nords does that make him/her a nord? No. They're an argonian and have no nord blood.

    I dunno, Ebon. Vitharn the Fall is a good enough source for me - it's in the lore, unreliable narration plays a part of course, but it's there:

    "and so he allowed the marriage of Csaran to Sheen-in-Glade, daughter of an Argonian midwife... Though Sheen-in-Glade bore a son by the Count (who disappeared from the Isles in his twentieth year), it is known that the two shared their bed with decreasing frequency"

    To say "cannot" based on one source throws up limits to creativity. Wulf's character is half-khajiit on his mother's side, and seeing as canis lupines is a disease of the blood, I don't see why some of that could not be passed down from his Nordic father :)

    Fall of Vitharn was written by a guy who was in the Shivering Isles , you know good ole Uncle Sheo's home, so I doubt that story means anything.

     

    As far for the topic Men and Mer can breed together, but Argonians and Khajiits can only breed with the same race, which makes logical sense and what Ebon said, and has been stated in Lore.

    • 1424 posts
    July 3, 2017 3:32 PM EDT

    The Nameless King said:

    Fall of Vitharn was written by a guy who was in the Shivering Isles , you know good ole Uncle Sheo's home, so I doubt that story means anything.

    As far for the topic Men and Mer can breed together, but Argonians and Khajiits can only breed with the same race, which makes logical sense and what Ebon said, and has been stated in Lore.

    Oh, absolutely and it's a valid point. Unreliable narration plays a part when examining any source.

    That said, we got to visit Vitharn and verify some parts of the tale, meeting the ghosts of the descendents of Count Csaran iirc. So while we can't discover for sure the truth of Sheen-in-Glade's and the Count's son as he left the isles, we can pretty much accept the rest of the story. To dismiss it as being "touched by Sheogorath" and therefore invalid then throws into question every single source from the Isles.

    So to dismiss one aspect of it when all the rest seem to add up doesn't sit well with me. An argument could be made that as this occurred with the Shivering Isles normal rules don't apply, but we would need to back that assertion up if pursuing that line of reasoning.


    This post was edited by Paws at July 3, 2017 3:36 PM EDT
    • 224 posts
    July 3, 2017 4:10 PM EDT

    Paws said:

    The Nameless King said:

    Fall of Vitharn was written by a guy who was in the Shivering Isles , you know good ole Uncle Sheo's home, so I doubt that story means anything.

    As far for the topic Men and Mer can breed together, but Argonians and Khajiits can only breed with the same race, which makes logical sense and what Ebon said, and has been stated in Lore.

    Oh, absolutely and it's a valid point. Unreliable narration plays a part when examining any source.

    That said, we got to visit Vitharn and verify some parts of the tale, meeting the ghosts of the descendents of Count Csaran iirc. So while we can't discover for sure the truth of Sheen-in-Glade's and the Count's son as he left the isles, we can pretty much accept the rest of the story. To dismiss it as being "touched by Sheogorath" and therefore invalid then throws into question every single source from the Isles.

    So to dismiss one aspect of it when all the rest seem to add up doesn't sit well with me. An argument could be made that as this occurred with the Shivering Isles normal rules don't apply, but we would need to back that assertion up if pursuing that line of reasoning.

    Sure you can accept the rest story like you said, but not the first part because from a biology standpoint, there is no possible way a race of Man or Mer can breed with a Beast and create a Halfbreed because of the DNA is different, just look up the Human-Ape experiment of Russia (I think it was called that). Man and Mer share a lot of the same genes and traits, and that has been a staple in most fantasy genres, but Argonians and Khajiits have very completely different DNA than Man or Mer. 

    The only possible way a Man or Mer have children with a Beast is by being in the Shivering Isles because Normality doesn't exist.

    • 1424 posts
    July 3, 2017 4:39 PM EDT

    The Nameless King said:

    Sure you can accept the rest story like you said, but not the first part because from a biology standpoint, there is no possible way a race of Man or Mer can breed with a Beast and create a Halfbreed because of the DNA is different, just look up the Human-Ape experiment of Russia (I think it was called that). Man and Mer share a lot of the same genes and traits, and that has been a staple in most fantasy genres, but Argonians and Khajiits have very completely different DNA than Man or Mer. 

    The only possible way a Man or Mer have children with a Beast is by being in the Shivering Isles because Normality doesn't exist.

    It does make sense and is a compelling argument :)

    The only thing I can think of to maybe throw a question mark over it is that the original inhabitants were Ehlnofey and it could be said that each race of man and mer descended from them, the Argonians being slightly more abstract in that the Hist may have been their ancestors, a seperate strain of Ehlnofey - again maybe.

    From there, Khajiit were once elves, transformed into cat-like beings, but they retain merish ancestry and DNA.

    So from my standpoint, the source most people prefer asserts that there have been "many reports throughout the eras" that remain uncomfirmed. It doesn't rule out the possibility, and in a world of magic where myth and belief shapes reality rather than Newtonian science (after all, the planets aren't planets as we know them, and stars aren't stars as we know them), it seems incongruous to use science in just one area.

    A source is a source, and it is for the reader to determine whether they accept or reject. Could be that Vitharn provides one of those rare moments Racial Phylogeny hints at, or it could be that in the Isles anything is possible as you assert. In that case, though, we would perhaps need to explain why and discover the extent of Sheogorath's control over his realm and those in it.

    It's a good discussion!

    • 224 posts
    July 3, 2017 5:05 PM EDT

    Paws said:

    The Nameless King said:

    Sure you can accept the rest story like you said, but not the first part because from a biology standpoint, there is no possible way a race of Man or Mer can breed with a Beast and create a Halfbreed because of the DNA is different, just look up the Human-Ape experiment of Russia (I think it was called that). Man and Mer share a lot of the same genes and traits, and that has been a staple in most fantasy genres, but Argonians and Khajiits have very completely different DNA than Man or Mer. 

    The only possible way a Man or Mer have children with a Beast is by being in the Shivering Isles because Normality doesn't exist.

    It does make sense and is a compelling argument :)

    The only thing I can think of to maybe throw a question mark over it is that the original inhabitants were Ehlnofey and it could be said that each race of man and mer descended from them, the Argonians being slightly more abstract in that the Hist may have been their ancestors, a seperate strain of Ehlnofey - again maybe.

    From there, Khajiit were once elves, transformed into cat-like beings, but they retain merish ancestry and DNA.

    So from my standpoint, the source most people prefer asserts that there have been "many reports throughout the eras" that remain uncomfirmed. It doesn't rule out the possibility, and in a world of magic where myth and belief shapes reality rather than Newtonian science (after all, the planets aren't planets as we know them, and stars aren't stars as we know them), it seems incongruous to use science in just one area.

    A source is a source, and it is for the reader to determine whether they accept or reject. Could be that Vitharn provides one of those rare moments Racial Phylogeny hints at, or it could be that in the Isles anything is possible as you assert. In that case, though, we would perhaps need to explain why and discover the extent of Sheogorath's control over his realm and those in it.

    It's a good discussion!

    If you believe this can happen, then please explain how could it. You do have a point that all the races were created from Ehlnofey, but they changed over time. Humans and Apes share a lot of DNA and come from a common ancestor and yet can't breed, due to several reasons. I know you are going to attack the fact that I am bringing logic or real world science into this, but it still applies in a sense, but Man and Mer are Warm Blooded where Argonians are Clod Blooded, more than likely, and have scales so would that work?

    Until there is hard proof that Man and Mer can breed with Beast, I will still say there is no possible way.

    • 1424 posts
    July 3, 2017 5:23 PM EDT

    The Nameless King said:

    If you believe this can happen, then please explain how could it. You do have a point that all the races were created from Ehlnofey, but they changed over time. Humans and Apes share a lot of DNA and come from a common ancestor and yet can't breed, due to several reasons. I know you are going to attack the fact that I am bringing logic or real world science into this, but it still applies in a sense, but Man and Mer are Warm Blooded where Argonians are Clod Blooded, more than likely, and have scales so would that work?

    Until there is hard proof that Man and Mer can breed with Beast, I will still say there is no possible way.

     

    Haha, I'm not going to attack anything :) What you are saying is perfectly sound, I can't fault it and it is pretty much the orthodox opinion. My aims here are only in terms of proving Wulf with something lore-wise that helps him legitimise his chosen backstory. So we're cool, no attacks by me :D

    As for the answer to your question of how could it happen, I don't really have an answer. Only point out a potential case of when it may have happened as proof of possibility. There might be an answer in Argonian lore, in which case I would need to consult Teineeva. Like the Khajiit whose furstock is determined by the moons, what an Argonian becomes is dependent upon the Hist as far as I recall - what defines a 'Gonian isn't the scales and such like, but what the Hist sap does to the drinker. Concievably, an elf drinking hist sap at birth could be called an Argonian. TES is weird, normal rules don't apply, and an Argonian reaches sentients by drinking the sap, can change gender, and even be a simple lizard with sentience. I defer to Tein on that.

    In terms of Khajiit, well you know from your own projects that there are some furstock that resemble elves to such an extent that they can pass as them. It's what the moons ordain, much like the Hist for Argonians. To me it implies a great deal of possibility rather than limits 'tis all.


    This post was edited by Paws at July 3, 2017 5:24 PM EDT
    • 224 posts
    July 3, 2017 6:04 PM EDT

    Paws said:

    Haha, I'm not going to attack anything :) What you are saying is perfectly sound, I can't fault it and it is pretty much the orthodox opinion. My aims here are only in terms of proving Wulf with something lore-wise that helps him legitimise his chosen backstory. So we're cool, no attacks by me :D

    As for the answer to your question of how could it happen, I don't really have an answer. Only point out a potential case of when it may have happened as proof of possibility. There might be an answer in Argonian lore, in which case I would need to consult Teineeva. Like the Khajiit whose furstock is determined by the moons, what an Argonian becomes is dependent upon the Hist as far as I recall - what defines a 'Gonian isn't the scales and such like, but what the Hist sap does to the drinker. Concievably, an elf drinking hist sap at birth could be called an Argonian. TES is weird, normal rules don't apply, and an Argonian reaches sentients by drinking the sap, can change gender, and even be a simple lizard with sentience. I defer to Tein on that.

    In terms of Khajiit, well you know from your own projects that there are some furstock that resemble elves to such an extent that they can pass as them. It's what the moons ordain, much like the Hist for Argonians. To me it implies a great deal of possibility rather than limits 'tis all.

    I didn't mean attack like you thought. I meant to attack in a debate term. My aim here is to prove that it couldn't happen because from Lore it makes no sense.

    Honestly, if Wulf wants to keep his story like he does he can modify it like the Khajiit mother was already pregnant and she fell in love in with this Nord or something of that sort, the Khajiit woman could one of the ones that looks like a elf, or even say screw it and say that Uncle Sheo had something to do with it, thus his Khajiit can still be a "Nord" in a sense without breaking Lore. Plus, how would a Khajiit of no specific form, be able to be a Werewolf? If it was one of the ones that were Elven I could see it, but if it was one of the others, I couldn't and it would instead be a Werelion.

    If you want to talk about the specific Khajiit races that look like Bosmer or even Elves, then yes I would they would be the only ones that could, in theory, give birth like a Man or Mer since they would be the ones that retain a lot of their Elven traits, unlike their other counterparts. I know the moons have a factor, but I am looking at it from a different point of view. 

    The Argonian thing I am going based on from what I have read and what I have seen, and there would still be a lot of problems with the genetics. Also, I do know this fantasy game and "anything goes", but most things in the Fantasy genre have some concept of real world logic or physics.


    This post was edited by David at July 3, 2017 6:05 PM EDT
    • 1424 posts
    July 3, 2017 6:18 PM EDT

    I think you just provided the answer! If only a certain type of Khajiit can produce offspring with man or mer, but it's the moons which ordain the type of cat her child will be, then we could potentially say that the mother was an Ohmes or Omes-Raht who gave birth to a Khajiit type we're more familiar with :)

    In general, though, even as a fantasy world TES likes to make it head-fucky, and often applying rl logic or physics doesn't work, or can work incredibly well. In Argonians we can see some biology, but the rest is bonkers :D

    X

    • 224 posts
    July 3, 2017 7:07 PM EDT

    Yeah, I realized that right after I posted that. I do believe that the Ohmes and Ohmes-Raht could, in theory, produce children like Man or Mer, though the looks would be dependant on who was the mother and was the father in the relationship because if the Ohmes/raht was the female then the moons would be involved in how the child would look.

  • July 3, 2017 11:20 PM EDT

    There is a piece of lore that I found here that states:

    [blockquoe]"Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another.

    Offspring of inter-racial matings have the racial appearance of the mother, but may occasionally share inherited characteristics and abilities of the father. Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme." Savants' Notes on Vvardenfell

    So by this piece of Lore Beast, Man, and Mer can all interbreed, though I would think that Argonians wouldn't be able to at all since they lay eggs, of course, this only applies if the Argonian is female.

    • 1424 posts
    July 4, 2017 3:31 AM EDT

    The Last Blade said:

    There is a piece of lore that I found here that states:

    "Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another.

    Offspring of inter-racial matings have the racial appearance of the mother, but may occasionally share inherited characteristics and abilities of the father. Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme." Savants' Notes on Vvardenfell

    So by this piece of Lore Beast, Man, and Mer can all interbreed, though I would think that Argonians wouldn't be able to at all since they lay eggs, of course, this only applies if the Argonian is female.

    Ha! And this is why I love TES :D Now we have a multitude of conflicting opinions just as it should be to allow the reader to decide. Great find, let the Savants of Vvardenfell and the writers from the Isles have their day, for once eclipsing the academics who likely never got their hands dirty in their "research" into the topic :p


    This post was edited by Paws at July 4, 2017 3:35 AM EDT
  • July 4, 2017 3:54 AM EDT
    What is strange about Vitharn is not the fact that they have a baby, but more importantly sentient one. There are no Argonians without Hist sap. They can be born and shit, but not sentient. Makes me wonder if Sithis-shaped-hole and the Fangs didn't have a play there.

    As for Argonians and Khajiit babies...in theory, yeah, possible. But child is ALWAYS the same race as mother, 95% of genetic material is mother's if we're talking science. Females in TES are like Asari lol :D
    • 1424 posts
    July 4, 2017 4:03 AM EDT

    The Lorc of Flowers said: What is strange about Vitharn is not the fact that they have a baby, but more importantly sentient one. There are no Argonians without Hist sap. They can be born and shit, but not sentient. Makes me wonder if Sithis-shaped-hole and the Fangs didn't have a play there. As for Argonians and Khajiit babies...in theory, yeah, possible. But child is ALWAYS the same race as mother, 95% of genetic material is mother's if we're talking science. Females in TES are like Asari lol :D

    It reminds me of the similarities in your Grummites article and the connections between the Hist and the Gnarls who tend the Fonts of Madness. If the Grumites are forerunners of the 'Gonians, perhaps Gnarls represent the Hist as they were then. In that case, maybe just sucking their sap would be a good enough substitute? Where there's a hole there's us to ram it with something :D


    This post was edited by Paws at July 4, 2017 4:03 AM EDT
  • July 4, 2017 4:11 AM EDT
    Sheogorath gets, Sheogorath provides :)
    • 174 posts
    July 4, 2017 4:47 AM EDT

    Paws said:

    In general, though, even as a fantasy world TES likes to make it head-fucky, and often applying rl logic or physics doesn't work, or can work incredibly well. In Argonians we can see some biology, but the rest is bonkers :D

    What the hell are you going on about Paws? If anything it's the biology that doesn't make sense. Argonians are ovipositing mammals (the only example we've got in RL is the platypus) with characteristics that fit reptilians (scales, feathers, horns...), amphibians (eggs need to be laid in hatching pools and the amphibious lifestyle) and fish (the fuckers have gills!). It's all over the goddamn place! It's like Bethesda looked at a biology book like a fast food menu and decided they would have one of each and threw everything into a blender.

    Back to the matter at hand though;

    First of all, what the fuck is this doing here? We've got a lore group for this type of discussion damnit! Anyway, I'll allow it.

    Second; Argonians are born as a species that is clearly different from men, mer or even Khajit. However, they then ingurgitate hist sap and this is where shit becomes crazy. I can't remember the exact source but depending on the amount of histsap ingurgitated the original lizamphibifish can turn into an argonian as we know them, but that's not all. According to that same source they can come out more human looking or even looking like they were some kind of strange Hist/Argonian hybrid (because a mammalian lizamphibifish wasn't enough they had to add in tree characteristics :P). The latter is backed up by a source I do remember the name of; a text about the Miredancers, where excessive amounts of hist sap will slowly turn a fully grown argonian into this type of tree hybrid.

    While I have my doubts succesful mating between a male "human" and a female Argonian is possible (the whole egg thing doesn't help) but between a male argonian and a female "Human"it might actually be a possibility. 

    Furthermore, before anyone decides to disregard the Shivering isles source, remember that Good ol'uncle Sheo is not just the god of madness. He is the daedra of creativity, madness is just this idea brought to its extreme. If we have learnt anything in real life science, it's that with enough creativity and discipline everything is possible. You just have to finds ways to break or bend the rules. What tells you Sheen in Glade and her husband didn't find a way?

    Besides that, to me the question is not can they produce offspring, but rather can that offspring do the same? This is what defines species and why donkeys and horses, lions and tigres and wheat and maize are all considered different species despite the fact that you can hybridize them.

     

    • 1424 posts
    July 4, 2017 5:03 AM EDT

    Whoa, wtf! :D Here I am enjoying a quiet cuppa and a biscuit before a snooze. What's scratched your scales this morning? ;)

    I think you've said better that which I meant. Lizards ain't my thing, but we can say "DNA this" and "Biology that" but ain't none of it holding water when applied to TES. We all are happy to accept that man and mer can reproduce, yet are ouraged at the thought of bestiality. Which I guess when said like that makes sense :p

    But besides that, whey should man and mer be able to reproduce? Because they can in other settings and that sets the paradigm? I call bullshit. Why would the DNA of an elf be similar enough to that of a man? Where's the science in a world where this shit can happen:

    Is it true that not every Saxhleel are Argonians but many Argonians are Saxhleel? Can members from other races be also Argonians by The Hist's will (an Argonian Bosmer, an Argonian Orc...)?
     

    Yes to both questions. MK.

    To accept one source as being the one true fact limits all. I say more of the headfucky and less of the rules-lawyers!

    Agree about LG, this stuff got deep :D

    Edit: Excellent point about creativity and madness!


    This post was edited by Paws at July 4, 2017 5:08 AM EDT
  • July 4, 2017 5:09 AM EDT
    Maybe it's because men and mer have - excuse my Orcish - tusks and...hmm... tusk sheathes while Argonians have cloaca? :D