Forums » General Gaming

Blades...

    • 43 posts
    December 16, 2013 6:26 PM EST

    okay so with my last post (paarthurnax) a lot of people showed hate towards the blades.

    how do you view them and if you want is it the Blades fault the last dragonborn died (Oblivion)

  • December 16, 2013 6:35 PM EST

    The blades suck at their job. 

    They suck at their job of serving the Dragonborn now. Having to kill Paarthurnax. What the crap? I'm Dragonborn! You listen to me! " Their oaths as Blades" I couldn't even find said oath!

    Blades are worthless

  • December 16, 2013 6:42 PM EST
    In Skyrim, they suck, for the reasons listed by Shor.

    In Oblivion, they were pretty badass. And I don't consider them at fault for Uriel's death since it was kind of set in stone anyways.
    • 74 posts
    December 16, 2013 7:46 PM EST
    Oh my god, you are so right, I'm the dragonborn and there not going to let me in because I refuse to kill one dragon. Um.. Hello, I just defeated Alduin, Eater of Worlds like twenty minutes ago.
    • 69 posts
    December 16, 2013 8:25 PM EST

    Also, with the blades forcing you to kill parthunax, you virtually gain no added benefits when you do it besides a dragon soul, a potion and some armour. The greybeards are way better (and cooler).

    • 111 posts
    December 17, 2013 2:16 AM EST

    I don't hate the blades, I merely have a low opinion of them. I think the blades have a much inflated view of their abilities and worth. 

    For those of us who played TESIV Jauffre the Grand Master (and other leaders) showed a remarkable lack of foresight and ability in securing the person of the Emperor Tiber Septim and his heirs. OK so maybe one can say it was the will of the gods, but I hardly think that allowing Daedric forces access to Tamriel through dimension gates  would constitute willing participation by the "Nine". To digress slightly, pure speculation, but it may have been the ineptitude of the fledgling Talos that spurred the "Eight" to demote him from his divinity status by raising the AD. As it happens it took Akatosh to sort the problem out at the cost of the life of the remaining Dragonborn heir. There is no doubt that the Septim bloodline's  link with Akatosh was nowhere near as potent as that of a Dragonborn being merely an exclusive possessor of the power to maintain the barrier between the realm of Oblivion and that of Tamriel


    Sorry back to the Blades. Their patron deity was Talos who they worshipped extensively. Whilst not always exclusively Talos was the target of the bulk of their prayers as far as I can understand. All Blades were initially monks in the Order of Taloss, but for those with aptitude,  combat skills were developed in training. More appropriately perhaps, for those of a religious persuasion, political skill and a talent for intrigue, were also imparted.

    I am uncertain how the Akaviri became Blades and Guardians to the Septim bloodline, but we see an historic connection between the Akaviri and Rehman Cyrodiil who is said to have defeated the Akaviri in the battle of Pale Pass, subsequently becoming his servants. By the end of the Third Era the Blades membership was made up of a a cosmopolitan mix of all the Tamrielic races with the possible exception of the Dunmer 

    What I find hard to understand is the lack of political will that prevented the Blades from forging an open alliance with the Nords through their joint worship and deification of Talos. Even in TESV what remains of the Blades are still in isolation and appear to be operating independently from  Ulfric's forces

    However, what seems to be most disagreeable about what remains of their movement, is that it has become extremist and obsessed about the Thalmor. Further in the short space of 200 years they have forgotten or lost most of the lore they acquired and are now operating as crusaders for a lost cause. The blades original mission ( I make a distinction here between them and the general monastic order of Talos monks) was to guard and protect the Septim bloodline. They were not part of the Empire's military or political structure as such being purely in the military sense the Emperor's private army. Yet we see them taking an active role in the war when that was clearly not their duty! I would have expected to see the blades, like the Greybeards, in high monastic retreats leading scholastic lives awaiting the appearance of a Dragonborn somewhere in the mountains. Yet here we see them as an extremist sect much like the Mythic Dawn,  obsessing about killing all dragons who are the children of Akatosh!

    Personally I see them as a bunch of raving nutters who should be given a wide berth and just briefly used as a source of intelligence and to gain inspiration for the methods to be used in defeating Alduin and his cronies. The presence of the Blades at the summit, is a courtesy only, and a possible political concession to an attempt to return the Worship of Talos to Skrim and maybe Tamriel - Gods permitting of course!


     
      

  • December 17, 2013 2:59 AM EST
    hmm well I can see the blades point with you must kill parthunax to be our leader. Serving is not the same as blind obedience. You have to earn their servitude. I think as a set of followers they arent that great. In all my playthroughs I could never kill paarthunax. If the blades want to talk about honour and justice I'd say look around you at your honour and justice. It would be nice if skyhaven temple was better lit though.
    • 111 posts
    December 17, 2013 4:51 AM EST

    Yes it is a bit dark in the upper reaches especially in the common room. I'm surprised the Dragonborn doesn't charge them rent! Thinking about it the dragons and Dhovakiin are kin. Even though they ain't kissing cousins isn't it a bit impolite to tell anyone to waste their relatives? Worse yet one which without whom the Nords and by inference the blades would never have existed but as slaves  to the dragons?

    • 1 posts
    December 17, 2013 7:03 AM EST

    Honestly, I think the Blades are just something that was good once, but is now redundant and they cling to past glory, trying to be important again.

  • December 17, 2013 12:31 PM EST
    nothing would please me more than to have delphines head on a spike. Being on an xbox its not an option.
    • 661 posts
    December 17, 2013 4:07 PM EST

    Esbern is just a crazy old hoot who knows wizardry. Nothing special about him.

    • 661 posts
    December 17, 2013 4:08 PM EST

    I really liked it at first, but I couldn't take Delphine BS every time I played Skyrim.  So I just ignore them, and if I want to look like a Samurai I just grab the Ebony Mail now.

    • 111 posts
    December 17, 2013 4:27 PM EST

    Not sure that apportioning blame for the death of the official Septims is the right thing to do. However the blades did fail in their duty to protect Uriel and his sons. The point is that not only did they get completely banjaxed by the Mythic Dawn but they went on to compound the error by failing to provide sufficient security for the Amulet of Kings allowing Mythic Dawn cultists to spirit it away from a handful of dozy undisciplined priests! Hiding it in a secret cupboard? Puhleeeease! When you consider that the fate of Tamriel depended on the marriage of Martin Septim to the amulet don't you think that a little more guardianship was in order??


    I agree Martin made the only possible choice given the circumstances, and for a bloke that had no idea of his background he didn't do too badly. 

    Again you hit the nail squarely on it's head by identifying Delphine as nothing more than an irritating control freak. Esbern was an old fuddy duddy who was the product of too many years being buried in scrolls, theory and research. Reading a book on Dragon tyranny is one thing dealing with the practical implications of it is I think quite another

  • Tom
    • 624 posts
    December 17, 2013 5:53 PM EST

    You can't really blame the Blades of 200 years for what they are today.

    They've gone centuries without being able to fulfill their original purpose (protect and serve the Dragonborn) and in the interim resorted to protecting the legacy of the Dragonborn (Septim Empire) only to have their order shattered thoroughly and denounced by the Empire.

     

  • December 17, 2013 5:59 PM EST

    I'm gonna blame them. They left a prisoner alone with the Emperor, while they ran off. The Blades suck at their job. 

    • 152 posts
    December 17, 2013 7:30 PM EST

    The way I see the Blades of TES V is a pure shadow of their old order in the past games. Their gut reaction to the reappearance of the dragons is to go on the warpath, which isn't surprising seeing how the Aldmeri Dominion is actively trying to destroy them.

    Their demanding of the death of Paarthurnax is simply their falling back onto their two main guidelines: Find and protect the Dragonborn(s?) and to destroy all dragons. Yes, they are being completely overzealous with the Paarthurnax issue, but honestly, the two members who have survived that we know of have only done so by probably being completely over the top in their attempts to survive the persecution by the Thalmor.

    In summary, I do not blame the Blades completely for wanting Paarthurnax dead, but merely a backlash subconsciously to their perdicament (destruction of the lives and order). I feel as if the Blades in Oblivion would not have been so die hard about killing Paarthurnax, and may have actually tried to protect him because of his ability to be a font of knowledge. (Or they could have wanted to kill him brutally. Oblivion really didn't mention much about how they looked upon dragons during that age)

    • 152 posts
    December 17, 2013 9:07 PM EST

    P.S. Esbern is also one of my favorite characters in the game. I love his scholarly musing and how he pays attention to the history of Sky Haven Temple first before figuring out how to stop Alduin

    • 111 posts
    December 18, 2013 5:49 AM EST

    Jauffre was the Grand Master of the Blades. Irrespective of the Emperor's clairvoyance as gifted to him by Akatosh, Imperial and thus blades security had already been severelybreached with the assassinations. With the amulet not recovered by the Mythic Dawn and so much already known about the activities of the blades by them, did he think that the MD were just going to forget about it? I think Jauffre had become complacent. He failed to recognise the level of danger that the earlier attacks represented, and prepare for further incursions. Either way taking the amulet from the champion who would have delivered it by hand to Martin was a big error. It is possible that the Blades Grand Master wanted to remain as the dominant force in Imperial consultancy/control, and decided to retain the amulet to gain political advantage/dependancy . The one consistency between Oblivion and Skyrim is the blades policy of remaining a covert organisation even when circumstances dictated that operating in the open gave them a better chance of success

    Why did he give me the amulet of Kings? Because he didn't trust the blades to do the job rand he was right!

    • 111 posts
    December 18, 2013 5:51 AM EST

    No argument with that appraisal

    • 111 posts
    December 18, 2013 5:55 AM EST

    I too like Esbern. The classic absent minded academic. The epitomy of what I think the blades shouls have become scholars and the guardians of knowledge concerning dragons and dragonborn.The minute they started picking up swords they became just another bunch of loony crusaders on a pointless quest

  • December 19, 2013 3:23 PM EST

    So, incompetence? 

  • December 19, 2013 3:34 PM EST

    They left a prisoner , who they no nothing about, with the Emperor of Tamriel in a dire situation...They left the Emperor  ALONE with a PRISONER. 

    ALONE WITH A PRISONER

    That's like Bodyguard 101

  • December 19, 2013 5:18 PM EST

    The mythic dawn isn't the problem here.  They left the Emperor alone with an ARMED PRISONER they know NOTHING about.

    Forget the MythicDawn for a second, and think about what I just said. 

    Did you do it? Good, now, lets talk about the secret doorway in the secret passage that the Mythic Dawn somehow know about. Now, if the Blades were competent, when they found that the Mythic Dawn knew about the secret passage, the Blades might,for a second,assume the worst, and keep a Blade with the Emperor JUST IN CASE the Mythic Dawn knew about the other secret passage...

  • December 19, 2013 5:21 PM EST
    Just throwing this out there, it would've been impossible to save Uriel. It was fate.

    And Uriel knew he could trust you.
    • 22 posts
    December 20, 2013 1:07 AM EST

    The blades were a great faction before and during the oblivon crisis but once the Mede empire began they slowly declined into Thalmor and dragon hating fools mere remnants of what they once were. When they had asked me to slay Parthurnaxx I was appaled especially since without Parthurnaxx teaching the nords the power of the thu'um Alduin would have most certainly conquered and enslaved all the mortal races long before the time of the last Dragonborn in the 4th era. On top of that their way of genocide against the dragons is unjustified with the reason being simply that they are doing exactly what the dragons had done which only forges a constant cycle of revenge and death, kyne went to Parthurnaxx for a reason and that reason was not only to save man and mer but also to lead the dragons into a more unified state of affairs with the mortals that being said the blades are simply defecating on the will of a divine a right which no mortal has. I feel I may have gone off topic so I digress the blades were once a justified force but after the septim empire ended so did the legitimacy of the blades, in the 4th era they are nothing but a shell of their former selves and for the best should fade away.