Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Witchmen of the Reach

Tags: #Races  #Reachmen 
  • Member
    February 13

    Great stuff!  Not only does this seem to be a one-stop shop for Reachman lore, but there's stuff in here I haven't found anywhere else, all tied together nicely.  

  • February 14

    Thanks, Paul. Makes me wonder what stuff here you haven´t found anywhere else. Something important or only small bits and pieces? 

  • February 14

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Ok Karves, I have decided I want to do something with this going forward if it is ok with you. For a long time I have wanted to explore the witchcraft aspect of Nocturnal's sphere but haven't been able to figure out how to implement it. Do you think that if I took the Ice Queen from The Interrogation of Henghild and  used the Song of Hrormir, adapting them slightly to fit the Hagravens and Reach culture that there would be mileage?

    I mean, have you come across anything linking the Reachmen to Nocturnal directly? I know there's scope for interpretation but if there is a source mentioning such a link I would be delighted.

    Scratch that. I have forgotten now more than I know.

    We still have no idea how Hagravens are created, though we have heard theories that they are born when a Hagraven has sex with a Reachman, so called hag-husband. But we actually haven't seen proof that a Hagraven would come out of that union. There's mention of a son of Hagraven and hag-husband, who is normal, so maybe it happens only when a daughter is born?

    So I now recall asking a question of the Librarians at TiL last year when I first read Kyne's Challenge:

    This glen had been further polluted by a hagraven, a fiend forsaking Kyne herself and a creature I’d been hoping to face since the Reachmen captured one of the monsters that rampaged through Skyrim during the Wild Hunt back in 1E 369.

    The implication I took from that passage was that the Hagravens are creatures of the Wild Hunt, abominations of Daedric Magic which corrupts rather than creates. The book also gives me my connection to Nocturnal I had forgotten:

    “This one runs with the wolves,” remarked an older crone, manhandling Fenrig’s arm as she prodded his muscles with a filthy finger. A ripped and sagging shawl hung from her emaciated arms; it was sometimes hard to tell which was flesh and which was cloth. Dying hair hung limply either side of a wizened face. She was hanging skin, curved bone, and a hunched back with strange grasses and shelf mushrooms growing out from her shoulders and down her green-tinged body. Oddly fleshy sacks hung from her waist, as did a bloodied hatchet. Her staff was adorned with a cluster of small skulls (too small to be adult) at the crown.

    What was in this tea again?

    “Does not the Song of Hrormir… describe Nocturnal as one of your kin…?” Ingjard asked, her voice trailing off to a slur. Her tea was finished (as was her trust, it soon transpired). She fell forward, now in a stupor. The tea had been dosed, as had the food on offer, and our Argonian friend was flat on his back, sleeping like the dead. We weren’t about to join him. The hag untied her hatchet, her eyes strangely smoking with an unnatural purple vapor, and approached Ingjard’s body. “The first sacrifice to Mother Murk!” The forfeit of reason and higher functions in the pursuit of dark power always results in such devious repugnance.

    So I am tuskin' set!

    Someone´s been little bit crazy, talking to himself, eh? 

    I actually remember I came across some piece mentioning Hagravens and...harpies I think are the remnants of the Wild Hunt, but damn if I remember what piece was that. But still, even if we know how the first Hagravens came to be, does that help us determine how they are coming to be now? 

    As for Nocturnal...I haven´t tried to tie her to Reachmen before because basicaly, the only similarity I see are the Ravens. In ESO, there is this Coven of Hagravens in Northern Bankorai who are using talking ravens as spies and such, so that is somewhat similar to Nocturnal´s Great Ravens. But the same coven and its Reachmen tribe are followers of Namira. Overally, Noctural is kind of a elusive darkness, patron of thieves and I just couldn´t find the connection to the nature culture of Reachmen, especially when you have Namira as the Elder Darkness or what she´s patron of. 

  • Member
    February 14

    You betcha, craziness comes with the turf. Now you're forgetting sources too... It's only a small jump from the stacks of Apocrypha to the Mad God's Boot. Just ask Morian Zenas :D Dude's gone there before us!

    So the Wild Hunt is interesting. Why must Frond Fairies dominate all lore, though? That said, I do like the whole corruption rather than creation of the Princes. So having Hagravens somehow recreatng the Wild Hunt conditions through sacrifice or whatnot is pretty damned charming to me.

    Yeah, Nocturnal. I just find the Thieves Guild connection to be so dull. Her portrayal in Hrormir, Kyne's Challenge, Purloined Shadows (witch orgies!!) and Henghild as a witch's goddess are very appealing. If I factor in Teineeva's thing about Mephala's hidden depths I think something rather interesting evolves.

    But ravens as spies?! Wow, that I love. What is this coven and how hot are the chicks?

  • February 14
    How are the hot chicks? Not hot and dead... Nocturnal being a witch goddess is in the lore but as you say, we only know the TG version, with her luck influencing and such. But one can't stop wondering. Darkness, shadows...do those witches practice some sort of shadow or darkness magic?
  • Member
    February 14

    How dead are we talking here? And what is the penalty for necrophilia in Northern Bankorai? Just asking... :p

    Now there's a thought, I like that. Are there any mods which add shadow magic spells to Skyrim SE? I see something sublime taking shape. And this time it ain't Nocturnal's legs.

  • February 16

    I loved this, man. This is the first real and detailed lore article I found on the Reachmen. I searched the UESP and the official wiki and found little. This will help me a lot in my Forsworn roleplay that I'm planning.

  • February 16

    D3LTAFOX said:

    I loved this, man. This is the first real and detailed lore article I found on the Reachmen. I searched the UESP and the official wiki and found little. This will help me a lot in my Forsworn roleplay that I'm planning.

    That is so awesome to hear, mate. If you'd have any questions don't be afraid to ask here, or shoot me a message. :)

  • February 23

    Karver the Lorc said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Ok Karves, I have decided I want to do something with this going forward if it is ok with you. For a long time I have wanted to explore the witchcraft aspect of Nocturnal's sphere but haven't been able to figure out how to implement it. Do you think that if I took the Ice Queen from The Interrogation of Henghild and  used the Song of Hrormir, adapting them slightly to fit the Hagravens and Reach culture that there would be mileage?

    I mean, have you come across anything linking the Reachmen to Nocturnal directly? I know there's scope for interpretation but if there is a source mentioning such a link I would be delighted.

    Scratch that. I have forgotten now more than I know.

    We still have no idea how Hagravens are created, though we have heard theories that they are born when a Hagraven has sex with a Reachman, so called hag-husband. But we actually haven't seen proof that a Hagraven would come out of that union. There's mention of a son of Hagraven and hag-husband, who is normal, so maybe it happens only when a daughter is born?

    So I now recall asking a question of the Librarians at TiL last year when I first read Kyne's Challenge:

    This glen had been further polluted by a hagraven, a fiend forsaking Kyne herself and a creature I’d been hoping to face since the Reachmen captured one of the monsters that rampaged through Skyrim during the Wild Hunt back in 1E 369.

    The implication I took from that passage was that the Hagravens are creatures of the Wild Hunt, abominations of Daedric Magic which corrupts rather than creates. The book also gives me my connection to Nocturnal I had forgotten:

    “This one runs with the wolves,” remarked an older crone, manhandling Fenrig’s arm as she prodded his muscles with a filthy finger. A ripped and sagging shawl hung from her emaciated arms; it was sometimes hard to tell which was flesh and which was cloth. Dying hair hung limply either side of a wizened face. She was hanging skin, curved bone, and a hunched back with strange grasses and shelf mushrooms growing out from her shoulders and down her green-tinged body. Oddly fleshy sacks hung from her waist, as did a bloodied hatchet. Her staff was adorned with a cluster of small skulls (too small to be adult) at the crown.

    What was in this tea again?

    “Does not the Song of Hrormir… describe Nocturnal as one of your kin…?” Ingjard asked, her voice trailing off to a slur. Her tea was finished (as was her trust, it soon transpired). She fell forward, now in a stupor. The tea had been dosed, as had the food on offer, and our Argonian friend was flat on his back, sleeping like the dead. We weren’t about to join him. The hag untied her hatchet, her eyes strangely smoking with an unnatural purple vapor, and approached Ingjard’s body. “The first sacrifice to Mother Murk!” The forfeit of reason and higher functions in the pursuit of dark power always results in such devious repugnance.

    So I am tuskin' set!

    Someone´s been little bit crazy, talking to himself, eh? 

    I actually remember I came across some piece mentioning Hagravens and...harpies I think are the remnants of the Wild Hunt, but damn if I remember what piece was that. But still, even if we know how the first Hagravens came to be, does that help us determine how they are coming to be now? 

    As for Nocturnal...I haven´t tried to tie her to Reachmen before because basicaly, the only similarity I see are the Ravens. In ESO, there is this Coven of Hagravens in Northern Bankorai who are using talking ravens as spies and such, so that is somewhat similar to Nocturnal´s Great Ravens. But the same coven and its Reachmen tribe are followers of Namira. Overally, Noctural is kind of a elusive darkness, patron of thieves and I just couldn´t find the connection to the nature culture of Reachmen, especially when you have Namira as the Elder Darkness or what she´s patron of. 

    It's funny, I always took the Song of Hrormir to be entirely about Morrowind.

     

    As for the Reachmen I like to think that since the Nedes last bastion was in Craglorn that when the Ra-Gada sacked the city the remnants fled into the mountains and became the Reachmen and Bjoulse Tribes, with the Bjoulse retaining more of the Nedic culture and the Reachmen being more influenced by the Orcs, Hagravens and maybe Nords.