Forums » Elder Scrolls

I miss the Nordic Pantheon

    • 39 posts
    June 19, 2017 11:48 PM EDT

    The more I play Skyrim the less I understand the decision to bastardize the Nordic Pantheon. These Nords are so different from the ones seen in previous games.

    For instance, the whole Civil War plot centers (in part) around the banning of Talos worship. But if you look at the Nordic Pantheon, Talos isn't in there. Ysmir is. I'm assuming the Thalmor wouldn't let them worship Ysmir either, but regardless little things like that change how I view the Nords. It seems to me that the only Nordic Deity that has really remained 100% the same is Shor. Actually, I guess Mara as well, but still.

    The chieftain of their gods remains the same but the one credited with their creation, their use of the Thu'um, and carrying them to Sovngarde is changed to the Yffre/Kyne hybrid, Kynareth. It actually kinda ticks me off, but what do you guys think about it? Am I incorrect in how I percieve the Nordic Pantheon? Do you like the idea of the "barbarians of the north" accepting the deities of their Cyrodiilic neighbors? Let me know.

     

  • June 20, 2017 1:29 AM EDT

    Totemic Religion

    This is how it should have been. Then Bethesda thought it´s too complicated or whatever. 

    • 213 posts
    June 20, 2017 7:50 AM EDT
    Which is why I like ESO's Nords. They still worship Kyne and co. in that Era. Little things, sure, but it's still cool.
  • June 20, 2017 8:47 AM EDT

    To be completely fair it's something that you see fairly often (both in real life and in other TES games). If you look at Morrowind and Skyrim as the best examples, both of the cultures there have been slightly Imperialized and a lot of that can be seen with religion. The Dunmer are kind of split between the Tribunal and Imperial Cults (throw in the further split between the new and old Tribunal and the Ashlander tribes, not to mention the House of Troubles and you've got a really diverse religious culture there) and the Nords have been heavily influenced by the Imperials.

    You still see people who worship Kyne and Shor as two quick examples (though to be honest it does weird me out that the Thalmor aren't more anti-Shor... I mean, fair enough Talos is a more universally worshipped deity but it is a little strange that the Thalmor are so focused on Talos when there are other humans-turned-gods or anti-elven gods.) and I think there might be a few other Nordic Deities that are worshipped. It is a little bit harder when the only real temples are to Mara, Talos and the Temple of the Nine in Solitude (which is as close to an Imperial city as there is in Skyrim).

    As for the real world example...Well the same thing happened with the Roman Empire. A lot of the places they conquered were turned more towards the Roman Gods and the Romans took some of the local gods and blended them into the central religion.

    Anyway, my point is that the Nords have more or less been under the control of the Empire for centuries (to an extent) and have been one of the Empire's strongest allies in the past. I do agree that it'd be nice to see more diversity in regards to Skyrim's religion but it isn't llike there aren't logical reasons for the lack of worship, and it's something that kind of comes out of creating an Empire (to an extent, the other option is of course the ole' Thalmor technique of murdering lots of people but that doesn't always go over too well :P)

    • 39 posts
    June 20, 2017 10:45 AM EDT

    The Lorc of Flowers said:

    Totemic Religion

    This is how it should have been. Then Bethesda thought it´s too complicated or whatever. 

    I agree with the vast majority of this except of the use of Talos in their pantheon. They already have a Dragonborn God, Ysmir. Which the LDB is also called. Hjalti Half-beard or Tiber Septim was given this title by the Greybeards. Ysmir (dragon of the north) is who the Nords should've been praying to. Talos is just someone who appropriated the title.

    • 39 posts
    June 20, 2017 10:57 AM EDT

    Dragonborn1921 said:

    To be completely fair it's something that you see fairly often (both in real life and in other TES games). If you look at Morrowind and Skyrim as the best examples, both of the cultures there have been slightly Imperialized and a lot of that can be seen with religion. The Dunmer are kind of split between the Tribunal and Imperial Cults (throw in the further split between the new and old Tribunal and the Ashlander tribes, not to mention the House of Troubles and you've got a really diverse religious culture there) and the Nords have been heavily influenced by the Imperials.

    You still see people who worship Kyne and Shor as two quick examples (though to be honest it does weird me out that the Thalmor aren't more anti-Shor... I mean, fair enough Talos is a more universally worshipped deity but it is a little strange that the Thalmor are so focused on Talos when there are other humans-turned-gods or anti-elven gods.) and I think there might be a few other Nordic Deities that are worshipped. It is a little bit harder when the only real temples are to Mara, Talos and the Temple of the Nine in Solitude (which is as close to an Imperial city as there is in Skyrim).

    As for the real world example...Well the same thing happened with the Roman Empire. A lot of the places they conquered were turned more towards the Roman Gods and the Romans took some of the local gods and blended them into the central religion.

    Anyway, my point is that the Nords have more or less been under the control of the Empire for centuries (to an extent) and have been one of the Empire's strongest allies in the past. I do agree that it'd be nice to see more diversity in regards to Skyrim's religion but it isn't llike there aren't logical reasons for the lack of worship, and it's something that kind of comes out of creating an Empire (to an extent, the other option is of course the ole' Thalmor technique of murdering lots of people but that doesn't always go over too well :P)

    That's true. But the Romans completely stripped the Grecian gods of any uniqueness and serendipity. It was the same with the Nords. The only god that I see province-wide that is at least prayed to is Shor. Though the Kyne's quest is a thing, and you could argue that Herma Mora is a noted character in Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC (and you'd be correct, though he's never called this). 

    Honestly, I would've been happier if even just the Stormcloaks worshipped the old gods. Have the Stormcloaks stand for something besides just the Empire making a mistake. Have the Stormcloaks have the goal, not to destroy the Thalmor, but to return Skyrim to its glory days. The days of Ysgramor. When the Nordic Deities were widely worshipped, and the Nords didn't take crap from nobody.  The days when all of Skyrim was united under a single banner. I just think it was a missed opportunity.

    I don't think the Nords were ever under the control of the Empire. The Empire was essentially established by the Nords only to be hi-jacked by the Imperials later. [if I'm not mistaken] In Morrowind, Oblivion, and known Lore, Nords have always fought with the Empire not against it (which is why the Civil War is huge). So I don't think that the Imperial religion would have taken root. Especially in the Northern Provinces (i.e. Winterhold, Windhelm, Dawnstar, and Morthal). Solitude is forfeit because of it being the "capitol" of Skyrim and therefore having the most ambassadors coming and spreading their beliefs. Falkreath, Riften, and Markarth make some since as they are border holds, and Whiterun is the center mass.

    I just want diversity...ya know? 

    • 39 posts
    June 20, 2017 11:04 AM EDT

    Tenebrous said: Which is why I like ESO's Nords. They still worship Kyne and co. in that Era. Little things, sure, but it's still cool.

    Oh for sure, ESO has formed its fanbase off of the little things. Which is one reason why I'm struggling so hard to divide my time between ESO and WoW.

    • 1215 posts
    June 25, 2017 4:34 PM EDT

    RuinedCrown said:

    Dragonborn1921 said:

    To be completely fair it's something that you see fairly often (both in real life and in other TES games). If you look at Morrowind and Skyrim as the best examples, both of the cultures there have been slightly Imperialized and a lot of that can be seen with religion. The Dunmer are kind of split between the Tribunal and Imperial Cults (throw in the further split between the new and old Tribunal and the Ashlander tribes, not to mention the House of Troubles and you've got a really diverse religious culture there) and the Nords have been heavily influenced by the Imperials.

    You still see people who worship Kyne and Shor as two quick examples (though to be honest it does weird me out that the Thalmor aren't more anti-Shor... I mean, fair enough Talos is a more universally worshipped deity but it is a little strange that the Thalmor are so focused on Talos when there are other humans-turned-gods or anti-elven gods.) and I think there might be a few other Nordic Deities that are worshipped. It is a little bit harder when the only real temples are to Mara, Talos and the Temple of the Nine in Solitude (which is as close to an Imperial city as there is in Skyrim).

    As for the real world example...Well the same thing happened with the Roman Empire. A lot of the places they conquered were turned more towards the Roman Gods and the Romans took some of the local gods and blended them into the central religion.

    Anyway, my point is that the Nords have more or less been under the control of the Empire for centuries (to an extent) and have been one of the Empire's strongest allies in the past. I do agree that it'd be nice to see more diversity in regards to Skyrim's religion but it isn't llike there aren't logical reasons for the lack of worship, and it's something that kind of comes out of creating an Empire (to an extent, the other option is of course the ole' Thalmor technique of murdering lots of people but that doesn't always go over too well :P)

    That's true. But the Romans completely stripped the Grecian gods of any uniqueness and serendipity. It was the same with the Nords. The only god that I see province-wide that is at least prayed to is Shor. Though the Kyne's quest is a thing, and you could argue that Herma Mora is a noted character in Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC (and you'd be correct, though he's never called this). 

    Honestly, I would've been happier if even just the Stormcloaks worshipped the old gods. Have the Stormcloaks stand for something besides just the Empire making a mistake. Have the Stormcloaks have the goal, not to destroy the Thalmor, but to return Skyrim to its glory days. The days of Ysgramor. When the Nordic Deities were widely worshipped, and the Nords didn't take crap from nobody.  The days when all of Skyrim was united under a single banner. I just think it was a missed opportunity.

    I don't think the Nords were ever under the control of the Empire. The Empire was essentially established by the Nords only to be hi-jacked by the Imperials later. [if I'm not mistaken] In Morrowind, Oblivion, and known Lore, Nords have always fought with the Empire not against it (which is why the Civil War is huge). So I don't think that the Imperial religion would have taken root. Especially in the Northern Provinces (i.e. Winterhold, Windhelm, Dawnstar, and Morthal). Solitude is forfeit because of it being the "capitol" of Skyrim and therefore having the most ambassadors coming and spreading their beliefs. Falkreath, Riften, and Markarth make some since as they are border holds, and Whiterun is the center mass.

    I just want diversity...ya know? 

    The Skall use Herma Mora

    • 39 posts
    June 25, 2017 5:39 PM EDT

    I completely forgot about them. Mostly, because they worship an All-Maker and fear Herma Mora and that's kinda...you know...it. They were rather refreshing though to see some "out-dated" viewpoints in modern Solsthiem

  • Tom
    • 624 posts
    July 7, 2017 8:42 PM EDT
    While I'm always in favor of the Ancient Nordic culture, I'm not that upset over the change.

    It's been 200 years since Oblivion and Morrowind. We saw a missionary for Talos trying to convert the Nords in Bruma back then.

    200 years later, the conversion has been complete and the Nordic views of the Nine aren't copy paste of the Imperials. Akatosh is barely present, and the only deities with proper temples are the three goddesses, whom were the most important in daily worship to the Ancient Nords and Talos who is Ysmir and practically Shor's stand in. The Nords invoke Shor constantly as well, and they never built temples for him anyway.

    The only god with more presence is Arkay, and considering the practical purpose he plays in preventing the dead from rising, I'm not shocked every city has a priest to him.