Forums » Elder Scrolls

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:59 PM EST

  Really, because I think one of the heads of one of the shrines said that the guards wouldn't allow them into the city for worshipping the Deadra.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 6:59 PM EST

  And thalmor saying to innocent people stop believeing or we lock you up for no other crime is so much better. Molag Bal caused the vampires in Elder Scrolls yet he not Talos should be allowed worship.

• Kyrielle Atrinati

  

  • 291 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:00 PM EST

  :D I think it's great.  It shows that participants are thinking about the topic in relation to other applicable topics and trying to arrive at a general conclusion by considering multiple perspectives, i.e. thinking "big picture".

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:01 PM EST

  Depends on what daedra too, some require constant sacrifice or remains of the recently deceased. I think we can both agree we don't want that sort of people in cities.

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:01 PM EST

  Don't you go and kill them? That what happens when they do it in a large scale(remember Dagon?)
• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:02 PM EST

  But would you say it was right for them to do so?

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:03 PM EST

  I can't think of any shrine where people where sacrificed really.

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:04 PM EST

  Was talking about Dawnguard.
• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:04 PM EST

  Oh yeah, in that time it's definitely the right thing to do for any person with a good sense of morality and ethics. Because it was another time. Not now but back then you see.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:04 PM EST

  So Molag bals worship is ok because the people are find to find?

• Spectre

  

  • 285 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:05 PM EST

  Alduin, the Human killings were retaliation, I'll point to the Nords. As Atmorans they forced the Elves from Atmora, which was the Elves' ancestrial home meaning "Elder Wood", then coming to Skyrim, following the Elves, forcing them from the coast. When the Elves retaliated, killing a small percentage of the Human population st Saarthal, the Nords, led by Ysgramor, moved to commit genocide against any and all elves.
  
  I would also point out the arrogance is from the entire Imperial culture stolen and was twisted from the Elves. Don't even get me started on the Allessian Empire. Edit:The Humans were able to settle because Tamriel was at peace, the Elves weren't prepared for war.
• Kyrielle Atrinati

  

  • 291 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:05 PM EST

  Definitely not.  You don't want to find Namira's cult digging up your Aunt Mable and eating her remains in a dark corner.  If they would eat their own, that'd be a different story.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:09 PM EST

  Do you consider slavery was a right thing to do, because the times were different?

• Dieter

  

  • 952 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:14 PM EST

  If the general opinion agreed with slavery it's was the right thing to do.
  
  I don't know what they learn you wherever you are from, but over here they learn us that your view on things and your morality are shaped by your culture and people close to you. So if you live in a medieval culture where tose things are accepted then they are the right thing to do. Simple as that really.
• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:19 PM EST

  I believe what is right is that which not only is considered culturally or by our feelings correct but is backed up by evidence and logic as well. In other words what can be most proven to be the most true is what should be accepted as truth until disproven, for me at least. Cultures and us people are imperfect so I don't believe an individual should accept something if it logically or by evidence is incoherent. 

• Kyrielle Atrinati

  

  • 291 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:27 PM EST

  But we aren't talking about beliefs on an individual level.  We're talking about a whole society's beliefs.  Yes, it's probable that some Altmer didn't agree with the Thalmor, felt it was wrong to persecute the Nords, and perhaps saw the Thalmor's actions as largely counterproductive.  However, because we are discussing the entirety of the Thalmor, Nords, Empire, what-have-you, the minority is of little importance to the discussion.  

  An individual's notion of what is right and wrong doesn't matter on this large of a scale.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:30 PM EST

  But it is individuals who justify societies actions or disprove of them and try to change them and it is up to those who support the society and those in power to justify said actions. So on the grand scale it can matter.                                                                                                                     I have to go now this was a good debate, Ill get to anyone's replies when I'm on again.Bye

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:30 PM EST

  This site isn't always that active anymore. But one good topic and we have 9 pages full of people debating with an hour.

  We should do this more often.

• Alduin

  

  • 966 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:32 PM EST

  Yeah, what an individual believes to be right or wrong is only of any importance if he has power and influence. He could still be killed for it though.

• Arch Warlock of whatever

  

  • 21 posts
   

  February 18, 2013 7:33 PM EST

  Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to justify our beliefs

• lanep25

  

  • 377 posts
   

  February 19, 2013 5:55 AM EST

  All I see is the Spanish Reconquista and Spanish Inquisition. I kill every Thalmor any chance I get.

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 19, 2013 6:05 AM EST

  The problem is: Why do you kill them? If you're not doing nothing against them they WON'T attack you. The Thalmor are in a way like the USA Army; you make presence in a "conquered" location to make people know you mean business and you are not joking. They are not invading or terrorizing, they look for outlaws (or people who don't obey to the set law), just like a cop. They don't hunt them, but if the worshiper is obvious to be seen by many, he/she should be made an example, that worshipping Talos IS wrong.
  
  They just use their methods; not killing, unless necessary.(the police does it every time in real life and you don't judge them)
• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 19, 2013 6:10 AM EST

  Killing THEM for no good reason makes you a racist, as well if they did the same to you they would be racist too.
  
  Besides, you killing them gives them reason to attack you on sight for threatening the lives of many. (Is not like you know the prisoners they take anyways) And they don't arrest no one unless they have proof(hence the name Justicars{relating to justice})
• lanep25

  

  • 377 posts
   

  February 19, 2013 6:49 AM EST

  I'd be racist if I killed every Altmer. I'm not. I kill every Thalmor. There are Bosmer and Khajiit Thalmor as well. I despise their foreign policies and the religious persecutions of the people. Worshiping Talos is a matter of religious freedom, which the Thalmor can't seem to allow. They perform this Inquisition and they aren't even in their lands! It should be the Empire holding up their end of the White Gold Concordate, without the Justicars rooting and spying through their lands. They are invading, they are terrorizing, yet they do it in a low profile form.

  Bottom line is - The Thalmor have no business being in the lands of the Empire.

  ps. Having them attack me doesn't make them racist. There could be several reasons that would have them attack me.

• Knight-Paladin Robert

  

  • 264 posts
   

  February 19, 2013 7:01 AM EST

  They shouldn't be anywhere, but since Imperials are like the USA, they admit race diversities, Thalmor are a***oles and stubborn, I know, but even so, they still won the war, and ARE allowed to be in imperial territory by right. I killed my share of Thalmor too, but had my reasons, but that doesn't make them "evil" or wrong, they are making the imperials keep their promise or they will eliminate the problems, but their first aim is NOT the killing, they try by using politics to win back what they had before the humans came.