The Story Corner » Discussions
Writers Discuss - Romance (#10)
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Not a fan either, much prefer MacBeth and Lady MacBeth's sizzling relationship with its spattiness. The woman is willing to dash babies on the wall. That's awesome, from a literary standpoint not in an "I actually like dashing babies on a wall". Romeo and Juliet are a bunch of wussies in my opinion. I would have married Tybalt personally and Juliet should have gone for County Paris.
Your answer, however, raises another point, specifically revolving around the word "antiquated" which I will address when I answer the questions properly.
Sorry, been in the throes of the first week of classes.
*returns to course prepwork.
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Well put Sildriel. It is supposed to serve a purpose. I couldn't put it better myself. There has to be a point to it rather than just for the hell of it. However with regards to finding it uncomfortable, that I leave firmly on the shoulders of the writer, especially when it comes to the blog as we have a varied age group and very diverse views from members of the blog.
It’s the writers responsibility to ensure that no readers are offended. Just because we display a warning don’t give us the right to post what we like. Now I might place my head in a noose over this as I often do approach sex in my story and on a few occasions I delve deep into it. However I can honestly say I have done everything in my power to ensure that no such offence is caused.
There is another method of approach which I often use with the subject and that is with the use of comedy. Take the extract below as an example. (I don’t think it’s bad, but be warned it is referring to sex).
Vilkas lifted up his pillow and covered his head. Rikke who was in a room by herself, turned around and faced the door as her eyes shot open. She laid there listening to various howls before she groaned to herself.
“Oh by the eights not again”.
More often than not just short sentences like the one above is all that is needed. We all know what’s going on and yet the offence level is low. Writers need to ask themselves just how much is needed for the point to get across. And what exact point are they trying to make.
A great example of this is chapter 43 The Beast Within (Contains sex). In some ways this was one of the most difficult chapters and it took numerous PM’s between me and Borom to get it to a level we were happy with. I hold my hand up to the fact that the point I was trying to get across fell to the wayside. Although the main point of it was there, it was simply way too heavy.
If anyone is writing a chapter delving into characters relationships then think about what your goals are. Having someone just bang on a door and shout out “Can you two give it a rest” is all you need.
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Wow, yeah, 10 of these already. Awesome. You know, have you considered making a resource topic that has links to all of them?
Alright, I actually got some sleep last night so I shall tackle away. I've not written much romance, but one of the things that irked me about the game was the lack of babies and sexual content, especially since it has a mature rating. No, I am not out for sex, I actually don't like aspects of Witcher or Game of Thrones much for that reason. I think those two are on the other side of the spectrum, some of it is quite gratuitous. Ha! Somewhere in the middle would be great and when I set about retelling this Skyrim experience, I wanted to give the world a more earthy vibe. I mean, we can eat people in this game and use the Skull of Corruption, and yet I can't kiss my wife or husband in game? LOL, I find that very silly, but I think a lot of what we try to accomplish when we write these "retellings" of Skyrim is to fix some of these problems.
Why do we enjoy (or not enjoy) romances in stories?
Like others have said, romance can give us a welcome break from the fighting. It can create a tension in the narrative and provide moments of tenderness, tragedy, and comedy. I don't think, however, that it is always needed. Other human interactions can give a break from the fighting too. I don't enjoy romance in a tale when it doesn't make sense in the context of the narrative. I also don't enjoy it when it is explicit or gratuitous, or when it is demeaning to either party. I personally despise the Twilight "romance". On the other hand, while Tolkien, in general, sucks with romance, his tale of Beren and Luthien is beautiful, in a sort of distant, romantic, poetically tragic sort of way. I am in agreement that it should not be the main plot of an expansive narrative, this explains probably why I am not a fan of romantic comedies in general. The plot is rather empty. LOL, like you said, Okan, only two possible outcomes. I need more than that.
What do you like to see in a romance? & What makes a good romance?
These two questions go hand in hand I think. Like I was with regard to fight scenes, romances in the narrative should be believable. I don't mind people falling in love quickly, I actually like the unexpected, and the idea of love at first sight (ha! this is how I felt about my fiance) is totally okay with me, but why this happens has to make sense in the context of the narrative. I also don't mind a slow burn if it is again, handled well.
I will go out on a limb here and maybe get some flak for this, but I also don't mind adapting romances to fit with history nor I don't mind traditional gender roles. I am sorry, and maybe this is the history professor in me, but I would not approach a modern romance the way I approach a fantasy or a historical romance. The conventions of the period should be upheld to some extent at least in my eyes. Might not be politically or socially acceptable in a modern society, but in my eyes, it makes for more accurate story-telling. It's a fantasy game, so maybe it is not the best approach, but it's a fantasy world that's based on some pretty old human cultural models. For example, courting makes sense to me in the Skyrim world. Going out on dates does not. They are essentially the same thing, but it's all in word choice. Same with the terms girlfriend and boyfriend, no, just no.
I like romances where the individuals are strong. Strong relationships are give and take and the average is 50/50. The average, not every moment. There will be days when it's 90/10 or 30/70 between the two and a good romance in a narrative conveys that. I love spats and disagreements. I love couples that can have independent adventures, and relationships where one of them isn't always right.
I like humor in romance, and I like it when the couple can laugh at each other and their situation. Sex and love can be extremely funny, extremely intense, or extremely tender.
How can we avoid writing bad romances?
For me, the worst romance I have ever read or watched is that Twilight nonsense. It makes Romeo and Juliet look good, in my opinion. Bella's behavior is ridiculous throughout the entire process and when my sister forced me to watch the films I felt like bopping her on the head. My sister and Bella. The vampire is a jerk and the wolf is little better. All three are manipulative and it's a nasty thing to watch. If you like this sort of thing, I'm sorry, but as a person who's seen a few more winters than some here, a relationship like the one in that movie was just unhealthy to watch. I don't mind "love the bad boy/girl", but that bad boy/girl better treat you right or I close the book. Unless the person is a villain and they're supposed to be total jerks and the other member of that party is okay with that. The problem with Twilight, they are protagonists and Bella seems okay with her suffering. It's very one-sided. It's just weird. I don't like it.
I don't know though, again, this is a fantasy world, our protagonists may well have huge conflicts that would sort of lend itself to inherently unhealthy relationships, lol, besides being Dragonborn or not. Some of the relationships in the other fanfiction I've read here have not exactly been on the healthy side and at the same time it is still effectively written because the writer took the time to set up why the relationship is seemingly unhealthy. Not sure what to say on the matter. In my eyes, I think my protagonist has enough on his plate already. If he does have a relationship, it will be a healthy one. He deserves it.
A little note on sex
I don't mind it. I'm okay with writing it. I'm okay with reading about it. As a writer, I personally like focusing on the before and after and there are a lot of ways to write about sex without actually depicting the act. I'd like to emphasize, though, that if a writer is going to depict sex in their narrative, a warning on the top of their blog would be great. I do this for both sexual content and violence.
Again, sorry for the length.
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Lol, Andrew. I think it's ok to have unhealthy relationships in your story, if like Lissette said, you explain it, because we're human and make dumb decisions sometimes, except for me of course
. I'm planning a couple different relation types for my MC to go through and some will definitely not be ideal, but I think they can be used as a tool to drive the plot and character development along. It's important that they learn how to recognize when they are being mistreated as well as when they are the antagonist, and ultimately learn what is healthy for them. The problem with Twilight is they glorified the relationship.It does concern me how the majority of cultures in the world seem to readily accept violence, yet attach so much shame and embarrassment to sex. I personally prefer both fairly explicit, but not at the cost of story (story > sex + violence), although I still find myself more hesitant about covering sex topics.
Side note: has anyone else ever tried identifying which values in life you chose and which are the result of culture/upbringing?