Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Mara and the Ritual Stone

  • Tom
    Member
    April 15, 2015

    I'm starting to wish we could like individual posts as well, Phil.

  • Member
    April 15, 2015

    This was the question which got me into lore when playing Oblivion. I went on the Official Forums and had a high elf avatar and asked what is the connection between Mara and The Ritual? Proweler and Paw-Prints-In-The-Mud told me there wasn't one but I was determined to find an answer.

    Then they mocked me for being a high elf with a fixation on Mara and started talking about the Selective, which at the time went right over my head.

    Yes, I am that sad.

    So I mean no disrespect to say that all of these theories have crossed my mind in the last eight or so years and I don't think there is any stone I haven't turned over in a quest for the answer. As much as I want the simple connections to be true, the greater metaphysics won't allow it as we understand them.

    I am prepared to entertain idea that the Constellations are as important to Mundus as the Aedra and Daedra are, but directly linking a Constellation to a god or a demon is beyond me and what I think is possible. Or if it were we'd see more than just this one example. That is the real problem here, not the quality of the assertions and theories made in this post, but the fact we can only use one Stone and one goddess to create a theory to make this work.

    If we could tie the other signs to other Divines, then we may be on the right track.

    Maybe the et'Ada who left and made the Ritual holes are indeed those who share an origin with Mara, but so far it is only a TES Oblivion who gives us that connection, a game that may well have made a simple mistake. After all, it did give us:

    "Blessings of Mystara be upon you."

    I hold out hope for ESO, for the Celestial lore may hold the answer.

  • April 16, 2015

    I strongly believe that Talos is based more on Thor than Jesus, but there are definitely similarities.

  • April 16, 2015

    I was waiting for your reply with bated breath. I wanted to see what you had uncovered, or at least pieced together. So I think we may have a starting point. We should examine all the lore on Stones, the stars/constellations, and the Aedra. Let us see if any connection can be found.

  • Member
    April 16, 2015

    Mystara isnt anyone, its a reference to a D&D campaign one of the designers helped create, and wrote two books for

  • Member
    April 16, 2015

    This discussion has motivated me to watch (albeit, slowly) some videos on the Celestials. Here's what I have so far:

    In the book, The Unearthing of Kardala, the author claims that the ancient Nedes  "once worshiped the stars and set the Mundus Stones in their foundations."

    The constellations, which are obviously connected to the Mundus/Apex Stones, can appear in mortal form, like a ghost, but are called The Celestials. The Star Gazer quest line indicates that the Warrior, Mage, Thief, and Serpent star signs disappeared from the sky. It turns out that these signs took Celestial form on Tamriel. This was apparently part of the Serpent's plan, since it corrupted the Warrior and Mage, forcing them to wage war against Craglorn. 

    Also, the Serpent sign was able to corrupt the Warrior, Mage, and Thief stones. UESP SOURCE.

    EDIT: Some interesting quotes from the dialog:

    Of the twelve rightful star signs (indicating that that the Serpent is not "rightful"?), it's the guardians duty to protect the lesser signs, our charges, against the destructive ways of the Serpent.

    With the Warrior and Mage under the Serpent's control, their charges are vulnerable. So is Tamriel.

  • Member
    April 16, 2015

    I'm still working my way through the questline, so I don't have any more information. 

    Are the Celestials (who directly claim to be the constellations in mortal-ish form) the Magna-ge?

    Since the Serpent can corrupt a stone, could that explain the significant change in the Ritual stone blessing in Skyrim from Oblivion and ESO? (this is probably an unanswerable question) 

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around the first quoted text above.

  • Member
    April 16, 2015

    I am prepared to entertain idea that the Constellations are as important to Mundus as the Aedra and Daedra are

    It appears that you are on the right track with this. See the video and dialog that I posted below.

  • Member
    April 16, 2015

    Btw, the quoted text was spoken by The Thief.

  • April 16, 2015

    I very much like the added content onto the original discussion page, Knight-Scholar. =P 

    That video indeed brings up some interesting things, and I am surprised at how broadly this topic actually spans.