Skyrim Tips and Tricks » Discussions


Investigation: Wuuthrad

  • Member
    November 25, 2014

    Last night I had a look through Nikolaj's game mechanics thread - on the last page of the comments section I *think* I saw what you're referring to, but it doesn't look like it was actually tested (and it seemed Nikolaj was skeptical).  I'll still take a look, though.

  • Member
    November 25, 2014

    Hey guys, I wonder if anyone can help me with interpreting some numbers.

    I've been using the console command getav damageresist to determine whether or not npcs are mitigating any of the damage I'm inflicting.  For now, I've been preferring to test against npcs who show a 0 damage resist. 

    But I'm curious to see how armor rating/damage resist affects Wuuthrad's bonus damage, so I need to understand what it means when, say, an npc has a damage resist value of 40 (Oakflesh, I'm guessing?) or 79 (a Dunmer Dark Brotherhood assassin) or 102 (a Northwatch Keep Thalmor in full Elven armor). 

    How can I plug these damage resist numbers in to figure exactly how much damage is being mitigated? 

     

  • Member
    November 25, 2014

    What you get is the Armor Rating. Damage Resistance = 0.12*AR

    It's a percentage, so if you get, say, Damage Resistance of 40% it would mean your damage is reduced by 40%

  • Member
    November 25, 2014

    Ah, ok, so the console command doesn't kick back DR, but *AR*... thanks Vazgen!  

    Now to make sense of the crazy results...

  • Member
    November 26, 2014

    Some results of tests I ran last night.  Any insights very much appreciated to help explain these!

    With Wuuthrad displaying 91 damage:

    Cave Bear (0AR, 450 health) --->267.35 health (Great Critical Charge). Damage dealt: 182.65.  Very close to the 182 expected.

    Cave Bear (267.35 health) ---> 39.04 health (standing power attack w/ Devastating Blow). Damage dealt: 228.31.  Slightly better than the 227.5 expected (91 x 2 (PA) x 1.25 (Dev. Blow))

    So far, so good. 

     

    Now, let’s get an Elf into the mix.  I ran into the “Imperial soldiers” encounter, where they try to shake you down for gold.  The Dunmer “soldier” had 318 health and was displaying an AR of 65 according to getav damageresist.

    After a sideways power attack, he was at 180.84.  That’s 137.16 damage dealt.  I would expect 91 x 2 x 1.2 = 218.4, mitigated by 65 x 0.12 = 7.8%.  So, 0.078 x 218.4 = 17.0352.  218.4 – 17.0352 = 201.3648, so he was resisting more damage than I expected.

    Ah, right.  Add in the hidden worn armor bonus.  Can’t remember, but I’m sure he was wearing a helmet & armor but no boots.  Let’s say he was wearing gauntlets.  So add 75 to his displayed AR of 65 for a total of 140 AR.  140 x 0.12 = 16.8%.  Now, 0.168 x 218.4 = 36.6912. 218.4 – 36.6912 = 181.7088… still too low.

    OK, throw on boots.  Now he’s at 165 AR.  165 x 0.12 = 19.8%.  0.198 x 218.4 =  43.2432.  218.4 – 43.2432 = 175.1568.  I *should* be dealing at least 175 damage, but only dealt 137.  Something’s off.

     

    With Wuuthrad displaying 92 damage:

    Draugr Scourge (AR0, 700 health) ---> 516.70 (Great Critical Charge/Silent Roll).  Damage dealt: 183.3, which is very close to 92 x 2 = 184 from either a power attack *or* a sneak attack, but not both.  (And I don’t think I landed the sneak attack)

    Dunmer Cultist of Miraak (AR 91, 192 health) ---> 52.42 (Gr. Crit. Charge).  Damage dealt: 139.58.  Expected damage: 92 x 2 x 1.2 = 220.8. 

    We’ll add 50 to the AR for the gloves and mask, both armor pieces.  So 141 AR x 0.12 = 16.92% DR.  220.8 x 0.1692 = 37.35936.  220.8 – 37.35936 = 183.44064.  Again, like with the Dunmer “Imperial soldier” above, I’m doing less damage than I think I should. 

     

    I have more test results to show, but thought I’d leave this here for now and see if anyone can explain the problem here.  It’s entirely possible I’m not calculating these things right! 

     

  • Member
    November 28, 2014

    Updated to confirm that rank 3 of Limbsplitter doesn't get Wuuthrad to cause any bleed.  So unless rank 1 of Limbsplitter works (which, if it does, who cares?), it seems safe to say that we can't get Wuuthrad to cause bleed at all. 

    This has me wondering if Wuuthrad isn't classified as a battleaxe.  I'm curious to see whether it is mistakenly classed as a greatsword (I believe some internal text refers to it as the 'Blade of Ysgramor') - and whether Deep Wounds confers any advantage...

  • November 28, 2014

    James mentions that it's 25% bash damage at 100 block skill, the formula is

    Weapon Bash = Base Damage * 0.05 * (1 + Block Skill / 20)

    Wuuthrad is likely classified as a battleaxe, but it misses a material type (which is why it can't be tempered), so since bleed is attached to material there is no bleed damage. It's a bad perk anyway, since it doesn't scale.

    I'll be able to help you test whether poisons/enchants are affected Sunday.

  • Member
    November 28, 2014

    Awesome, thank you!  

    Ahh, that's the part I was missing re: bash damage... I thought it had nothing to do with Block skill.  

    I plan to update the post with references to your calculations, Nikolaj, if you don't mind - and credit you of course!  Figure it's nice to have this all in one place for those who are interested.  

    I've been playing with Marked for Death today, and that really does help!  I'm guessing it works as expected, multiplying the 'ElvenHatred' damage along with everything else, but haven't done the math yet to verify.  

    Also, Elemental Fury is a great shout, and I suspect could outshine Enchanting in terms of damage output, at least until very high levels of Enchanting skill/perks are reached.  Those two shouts will keep Wuuthrad viable for some time, I think.  

  • November 30, 2014

    Just cracked open the CK, Wuuthrad is indeed a battleaxe. It just isn't classified as a material.

  • Member
    November 30, 2014

    Thanks for taking a look, Nikolaj!  So somebody just forgot to classify it, then - and assigning it a material type would then cause Limbsplitter to kick in, as well as allowing tempering?  

    Part of me thought there was a chance Wuuthrad might have been left un-temperable intentionally, since the lore suggests it has a fairly supernatural origin (forged out of Ysgramor's tears).  But if it was just a mistake, I'd have no qualms about changing it if I ever get around to learning the CK.

    Anyway, it's proving pretty effective on Adept right now at lvl 36.  Champion's Cudgel is the only thing I've found that can outdamage it, even against non-Elves, though the Cudgel is more of a dice roll and needs to be recharged - and it's notably slower.  

    Next up to test is Dragon Aspect... curious how the 'more powerful power attacks' get factored in.