Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Prophecy and Fate

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  The thing that is interesting is Magnus. Dude's in on the idea from the start(s). When we look at that and then take Matt's Yokudan "stars are gods and guide the way home" theory we see something quite sublime.

  The thing that is interesting is Magnus. Dude's in on the idea from the start(s). When we look at that and then take Matt's Yokudan "stars are gods and guide the way home" theory we see something quite sublime.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  Take in Tom's words and have a read of Shor, Son of Shor again. Don't worry about the confusing stuff, just look at how the story supports Tom:

  He told his father that these words had been said before and Shor only sighed and said,Yes, and always they will be ignored. As for the counsel you crave, bold son, and in spite of all your other fathers here with me, that you create every time you spit out your doom, do not worry. You have again beat the drum of war, and perhaps this time you will win." Shor son of Shor returned then to us on the mountaintop.

  "And the awful fighting began again."

  Your question... How would Mundus break the cycle? If Alduin devoured creation (previous one?), does that mean tht now the cycle is broken? ... is incredibly complicated. Go back and have a look at The Model of the Godhead link. Now Tom is involved I cannot think of a better guide to this concept where I plateau at CHIM, Tom soars higher.

  I was under impression, that every time the whole story repeat, it's a new version of everything, parallel realities that create further parallel realities. 

  I don't think there is anything wrong with that interpretation, especially how close it mirrors some parallel universe theories in real life. Just try and turn it into a dream within a dream within a dream ~

  The fundamentals of the dream remain similar but sometimes the actors switch roles.

  Take in Tom's words and have a read of Shor, Son of Shor again. Don't worry about the confusing stuff, just look at how the story supports Tom:

  He told his father that these words had been said before and Shor only sighed and said,Yes, and always they will be ignored. As for the counsel you crave, bold son, and in spite of all your other fathers here with me, that you create every time you spit out your doom, do not worry. You have again beat the drum of war, and perhaps this time you will win." Shor son of Shor returned then to us on the mountaintop.

  "And the awful fighting began again."

  Your question... How would Mundus break the cycle? If Alduin devoured creation (previous one?), does that mean tht now the cycle is broken? ... is incredibly complicated. Go back and have a look at The Model of the Godhead link. Now Tom is involved I cannot think of a better guide to this concept where I plateau at CHIM, Tom soars higher.

  I was under impression, that every time the whole story repeat, it's a new version of everything, parallel realities that create further parallel realities. 

  I don't think there is anything wrong with that interpretation, especially how close it mirrors some parallel universe theories in real life. Just try and turn it into a dream within a dream within a dream ~

  The fundamentals of the dream remain similar but sometimes the actors switch roles.

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  Lissette, take that musical knowledge of yours and run with it. In fact I cannot think of anyone better qualified than you to actually explain what a coda actually is and why that is relevant in TES.

  Also, this is something Tom once linked me to: Aurbis the Musical. Wasted on me, maybe you'll see farther?

  Lissette, take that musical knowledge of yours and run with it. In fact I cannot think of anyone better qualified than you to actually explain what a coda actually is and why that is relevant in TES.

  Also, this is something Tom once linked me to: Aurbis the Musical. Wasted on me, maybe you'll see farther?

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  I will check his text with more detail later, but so far, I have observed a few things. I understand what he is trying to say but he's basing a lot of this on equal-temperament tuning and I think the duality of the octave can be explained by the mirror images of some of the gods, for example Lorkhan/Akatosh, or even Anu and Padomay. That you always return to the same pitch is significant. I also think that the Pythagorean tuning and the overtone series is a better assigning tool than a 20th century-designed scale which is what he uses. He's thinking scale, whereas I'm thinking harmonic overtones, consonance vs dissonance. The more dissonant you are, the farther you are from the cosmic flow. I don't mind that Lorhkan is rhythm, and I like the connection to time but it is a very traditional thing to assign "the Devil" in cultures non-musical aspects. Akatosh, would actually be a better candidate for rhythm since he is the God of Time and rhythm is duration in music. The author is just saying Doom Drum, okay, drums, rhythm, there ya go, Lorkhan is rhythm. The instrumental assignments to the towers are arbitrary more than anything else and more of what he thinks aesthetically fits than on any other basis. He also doesn't delve into the medieval concept of Musica univeralis which, IMO, fits more into a fantasy-inspired world like TES is. 

  Musica Universalis

  The idea of the universe being based on music or musical concepts is not unusual. Tolkien, for example. 

  Music of the Ainur

  Those are my thoughts after a mug of coffee. 

  I will check his text with more detail later, but so far, I have observed a few things. I understand what he is trying to say but he's basing a lot of this on equal-temperament tuning and I think the duality of the octave can be explained by the mirror images of some of the gods, for example Lorkhan/Akatosh, or even Anu and Padomay. That you always return to the same pitch is significant. I also think that the Pythagorean tuning and the overtone series is a better assigning tool than a 20th century-designed scale which is what he uses. He's thinking scale, whereas I'm thinking harmonic overtones, consonance vs dissonance. The more dissonant you are, the farther you are from the cosmic flow. I don't mind that Lorhkan is rhythm, and I like the connection to time but it is a very traditional thing to assign "the Devil" in cultures non-musical aspects. Akatosh, would actually be a better candidate for rhythm since he is the God of Time and rhythm is duration in music. The author is just saying Doom Drum, okay, drums, rhythm, there ya go, Lorkhan is rhythm. The instrumental assignments to the towers are arbitrary more than anything else and more of what he thinks aesthetically fits than on any other basis. He also doesn't delve into the medieval concept of Musica univeralis which, IMO, fits more into a fantasy-inspired world like TES is. 

  Musica Universalis

  The idea of the universe being based on music or musical concepts is not unusual. Tolkien, for example. 

  Music of the Ainur

  Those are my thoughts after a mug of coffee. 

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  Hmm, I suspect that I've got an answer, but it only raises more questions...

  The essential purpose of Mundus (and, I think, of the whole Dream actually, but that is another story) is an attempt for breaking the cycle, for a change. If the attempt is failed, Alduin devours the world and a new attempt starts. This would be repeated endlessly unless the attempt is successful, then the next dream begins.

  This time Alduin refused to devour the world (to fulfill his purpose!) and wanted just to be a god for some mortals, and was thrown onto the future by the Tongues, and consequently killed by the LDB in 4E 201. So now there won't be a new cycle? Does this mean that the attempt was a success? Or only that the world will be destroyed in some other way?

  Hmm, I suspect that I've got an answer, but it only raises more questions...

  The essential purpose of Mundus (and, I think, of the whole Dream actually, but that is another story) is an attempt for breaking the cycle, for a change. If the attempt is failed, Alduin devours the world and a new attempt starts. This would be repeated endlessly unless the attempt is successful, then the next dream begins.

  This time Alduin refused to devour the world (to fulfill his purpose!) and wanted just to be a god for some mortals, and was thrown onto the future by the Tongues, and consequently killed by the LDB in 4E 201. So now there won't be a new cycle? Does this mean that the attempt was a success? Or only that the world will be destroyed in some other way?

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  Well, someone must observe the things and throw in some corrections, otherwise the whole thing will be hopeless)

  Well, someone must observe the things and throw in some corrections, otherwise the whole thing will be hopeless)

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  I think you are right about Akatosh) Rythm is what brings order into the music, isn't it? Otherwise it would be just chaos of sounds.

  I think you are right about Akatosh) Rythm is what brings order into the music, isn't it? Otherwise it would be just chaos of sounds.

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  Is Alduin killed or simply put in his place?

  You do not absorb his soul in Sovngarde and there is dialogue with Arngeir in High Hrothgar that suggests that Alduin isn't really dead. 

  Is Alduin killed or simply put in his place?

  You do not absorb his soul in Sovngarde and there is dialogue with Arngeir in High Hrothgar that suggests that Alduin isn't really dead. 

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  Music is given direction and organization with duration, Thorien, which is rhythm. It can be a driving force in music or a force of stasis, depend on what rhythmic values are used. I am starting to think of a reorganization of this music theory present in the article, but I don't see it the same way the author does, but our backgrounds may be different. 

  Music is given direction and organization with duration, Thorien, which is rhythm. It can be a driving force in music or a force of stasis, depend on what rhythmic values are used. I am starting to think of a reorganization of this music theory present in the article, but I don't see it the same way the author does, but our backgrounds may be different. 

• Justiciar Thorien

  

  Member
   

  January 5, 2016

  Good question. It's obvious that he isn't dead in the way other dragons are, so I was wondering if he is going to reincarnate some day or dragons don't really reincarnate.

  And if he is put in his place, does it really mean that he will learn the lesson from this, or the story would repeat?

  And if h learn the lesson, does that mean he will devour the world then?

  Good question. It's obvious that he isn't dead in the way other dragons are, so I was wondering if he is going to reincarnate some day or dragons don't really reincarnate.

  And if he is put in his place, does it really mean that he will learn the lesson from this, or the story would repeat?

  And if h learn the lesson, does that mean he will devour the world then?