Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Redguard Braintstorming Thread

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  August 16, 2015

  Matt I just had a thought on something that has been puzzling me for ages: I said this over in the Redguard and Magic topic:

  I can imagine from reading Matt's posts over the years that a lot of Redguard magic we'd see if there were a TES VI Hammerfell would be spells woven from blade-work. In terms of gameplay, this would be like the Bloodskal Blade or more appropriately The Dragonsword of Lainlyn.

  To wrap up this convoluted question, if Tamrielic magic could be replicated with esoteric swordsmanship such as the Feeney describes here...:

  Now onto my actual theory: Julianos is the God of Wisdom, Logic, Mathematics, and Language. He's kind of the scholar of whatever pantheon he is in. How would a culture obsessed with swords imagine a god of scholarly subjects? In crazy, advanced sword techniques. Enter Leki the God of Aberrant Swordsmanship. The one who taught the Ephemeral Feint. The one who holds the knowledge of such techniques that no doubt require a knowledge of mathematics and angles to pull off, let alone actually create.

  ...Would the Redguards be more accepting of magical practices? Would they view the power unlocked in the Dragonsword as magic or sword technique?

  In the TES IV Oblivion Battlehorn Castle dlc the fortress which was built by the Knights of the True Horn who were exiled from Lainlyn, for some reason has a shrine of Julianos in the lobby.

  I never could figure out why until now...

  Matt I just had a thought on something that has been puzzling me for ages: I said this over in the Redguard and Magic topic:

  I can imagine from reading Matt's posts over the years that a lot of Redguard magic we'd see if there were a TES VI Hammerfell would be spells woven from blade-work. In terms of gameplay, this would be like the Bloodskal Blade or more appropriately The Dragonsword of Lainlyn.

  To wrap up this convoluted question, if Tamrielic magic could be replicated with esoteric swordsmanship such as the Feeney describes here...:

  Now onto my actual theory: Julianos is the God of Wisdom, Logic, Mathematics, and Language. He's kind of the scholar of whatever pantheon he is in. How would a culture obsessed with swords imagine a god of scholarly subjects? In crazy, advanced sword techniques. Enter Leki the God of Aberrant Swordsmanship. The one who taught the Ephemeral Feint. The one who holds the knowledge of such techniques that no doubt require a knowledge of mathematics and angles to pull off, let alone actually create.

  ...Would the Redguards be more accepting of magical practices? Would they view the power unlocked in the Dragonsword as magic or sword technique?

  In the TES IV Oblivion Battlehorn Castle dlc the fortress which was built by the Knights of the True Horn who were exiled from Lainlyn, for some reason has a shrine of Julianos in the lobby.

  I never could figure out why until now...

• Vaaljørn

  

  Member
   

  August 16, 2015

  This is slightly off topic, so sorry in advance.

  Has anyone noticed a similarity between the picture of Tall Papa and His Many Beloved Children and the shrine in Bromjunaar Sanctuary? They both depict a tall, central, non-human figure who is surrounded robed, hooded people. Even the robed people are similarly positioned to form the same basic shape (triangular - descending from the central figure). The Redguard picture depicts everyone facing west, which is fitting since the farther west you go (Yokuda in particular) the farther back in time you move. By contrast, the Bromjunaar shrine depicts everyone facing forward, which is also fitting since Tamriel is in the present. However, the wooden mask takes you back in time. Interesting.

  As I said, slightly off topic . . .

  This is slightly off topic, so sorry in advance.

  Has anyone noticed a similarity between the picture of Tall Papa and His Many Beloved Children and the shrine in Bromjunaar Sanctuary? They both depict a tall, central, non-human figure who is surrounded robed, hooded people. Even the robed people are similarly positioned to form the same basic shape (triangular - descending from the central figure). The Redguard picture depicts everyone facing west, which is fitting since the farther west you go (Yokuda in particular) the farther back in time you move. By contrast, the Bromjunaar shrine depicts everyone facing forward, which is also fitting since Tamriel is in the present. However, the wooden mask takes you back in time. Interesting.

  As I said, slightly off topic . . .

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  Member
   

  August 16, 2015

  Another totally off topic question but is Tall Papa named after Papa Ibra Tall?

  

  Another totally off topic question but is Tall Papa named after Papa Ibra Tall?

  

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  Member
   

  August 16, 2015

  Wouldn't be surprised if there was inspiration from Papa Tall. At the very least, the author of the piece above was somewhat inspired by his art style (freaky, long fingers and sectioned masks).

  Wouldn't be surprised if there was inspiration from Papa Tall. At the very least, the author of the piece above was somewhat inspired by his art style (freaky, long fingers and sectioned masks).

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  Member
   

  August 16, 2015

  Probably both. They acknowledge the Shehai as magical. I'm not too familiar with general magic, but from what I remember all magic schools have a different way of 'thinking.' Like Alteration is based on changing reality so that requires a certain mindset. Well the mindset for any Yokudan magic is probably one that compliments swordsmanship. Adrenaline and battle focus, angles and maths, maybe stuff like that.

  Probably both. They acknowledge the Shehai as magical. I'm not too familiar with general magic, but from what I remember all magic schools have a different way of 'thinking.' Like Alteration is based on changing reality so that requires a certain mindset. Well the mindset for any Yokudan magic is probably one that compliments swordsmanship. Adrenaline and battle focus, angles and maths, maybe stuff like that.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  Member
   

  September 3, 2015

  I always presumed the Left-Hand Elves was a reference to the Left-Hand Path in mysticism. So basically Left-Handers believe they have the power to be almighty and there is no other gods above them.

  "There is a significant difference between the two Tantric paths, that of the right hand and that of the left hand (which both are under Shiva's aegis). In the former, the adept always experiences 'someone above him', even at the highest level of realization. In the latter, 'he becomes the ultimate Sovereign' (chakravartin = worldruler)."[18]  

  This gives them a more Manish\Tribunal point of view which would put them at odds with the Altmer and the Redguards. Also it fits in nicely with the Maormer since Orgnum claims to be Satakal himself.

   

  I always presumed the Left-Hand Elves was a reference to the Left-Hand Path in mysticism. So basically Left-Handers believe they have the power to be almighty and there is no other gods above them.

  "There is a significant difference between the two Tantric paths, that of the right hand and that of the left hand (which both are under Shiva's aegis). In the former, the adept always experiences 'someone above him', even at the highest level of realization. In the latter, 'he becomes the ultimate Sovereign' (chakravartin = worldruler)."[18]  

  This gives them a more Manish\Tribunal point of view which would put them at odds with the Altmer and the Redguards. Also it fits in nicely with the Maormer since Orgnum claims to be Satakal himself.

   

• Matt Feeney the New Guy

  

  Member
   

  September 4, 2015

  I'm digging it. I'll add it once I get my laptop working.

  I'm digging it. I'll add it once I get my laptop working.
• Paws

  

  Member
   

  September 6, 2015

  Consider this now part of my headcanon. In the immortal words of Snake, "Yoink!"

  Consider this now part of my headcanon. In the immortal words of Snake, "Yoink!"

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  Member
   

  September 17, 2015

  I've been thinking if Tall Papa = Magnus does that mean Leki = Meridia? 

  I've been thinking if Tall Papa = Magnus does that mean Leki = Meridia? 

• Deleted Member

  
   

  September 17, 2015

  Conceivably.

  Meridia's identity could have been altered through the generations into Leki, a daughter of Tall Papa rather than one of the few who left with Magnus. Meridia is also aberrant in the sense she became a Daedric Prince and Leki is labeled a goddess of aberrant swordsmanship. Furthermore, there is something (with Leki) about a war with the Aldmer beginning, Meridia's Daedric qualities being a plausible source of that contention rather than the split on Lorkhan. Meridia's fabled artifact is a sword though that may be minor.

  A less substantial connection could be made with the Ash'abah and the general fear Redguards have of slaying their undead. If the early Yokudans knew Meridia was one of their deities, they might have shared the same views about the undead, that hatred turning into fear which can lead to an irrational irreverence through the ages; an Ash'abah was described as using some strange magic to fight the undead, which could be a remnant of some Meridia worship:

  In the silent dusk, we halted at the mausoleum on the outskirts of Bergama. The Ash'abah sat cross-legged, chanting in a circle while a warrior was washed with oils. "This is a purification ritual," Barahar whispered to me, "before our sword-adept banishes the angry ancestor-spirit." [...] The warrior adeptly evaded and spoke incomprehensible incantations. His spear glowed and he thrust it through the wraith's face [source].

  Telling a Crown, of course, that one of their deities is a Daedra would probably earn you a lopped head but... for knowledge!

  Conceivably.

  Meridia's identity could have been altered through the generations into Leki, a daughter of Tall Papa rather than one of the few who left with Magnus. Meridia is also aberrant in the sense she became a Daedric Prince and Leki is labeled a goddess of aberrant swordsmanship. Furthermore, there is something (with Leki) about a war with the Aldmer beginning, Meridia's Daedric qualities being a plausible source of that contention rather than the split on Lorkhan. Meridia's fabled artifact is a sword though that may be minor.

  A less substantial connection could be made with the Ash'abah and the general fear Redguards have of slaying their undead. If the early Yokudans knew Meridia was one of their deities, they might have shared the same views about the undead, that hatred turning into fear which can lead to an irrational irreverence through the ages; an Ash'abah was described as using some strange magic to fight the undead, which could be a remnant of some Meridia worship:

  In the silent dusk, we halted at the mausoleum on the outskirts of Bergama. The Ash'abah sat cross-legged, chanting in a circle while a warrior was washed with oils. "This is a purification ritual," Barahar whispered to me, "before our sword-adept banishes the angry ancestor-spirit." [...] The warrior adeptly evaded and spoke incomprehensible incantations. His spear glowed and he thrust it through the wraith's face [source].

  Telling a Crown, of course, that one of their deities is a Daedra would probably earn you a lopped head but... for knowledge!