[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

On the subject of having a code or law to follow, does it render a LN character a bit confused when that code doesn't hold the answer in a particular scenaraio?

[/blockquote]I can see a lawful good character struggling when the code doesn't hold the answers or leads to places that seem worse than a break with the code. LN, however, seems (to me at least) not to worry about where the code takes you. You may not like it, but the code is the code. If anything, there's some solace to that. 

I think of the operative in the movie Serenity (based on the Firefly series). I know the interwebs seem to have him pegged as lawful evil, but I just don't see him projecting his own will into his actions; the Alliance asks him to commit atrocities for the greater good, and he does it--because the code asks it of him, and the code is always right (even if it is unpleasant). Sleeping after those atrocities would be difficult if you didn't have an unflinching belief in the code to tuck you in at night ;D

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/ShinJin]ShinJin[/url] said:[/b]

I can see a lawful good character struggling when the code doesn't hold the answers or leads to places that seem worse than a break with the code. LN, however, seems (to me at least) not to worry about where the code takes you. You may not like it, but the code is the code. If anything, there's some solace to that. 

I think of the operative in the movie Serenity (based on the Firefly series). I know the interwebs seem to have him pegged as lawful evil, but I just don't see him projecting his own will into his actions; the Alliance asks him to commit atrocities for the greater good, and he does it--because the code asks it of him, and the code is always right (even if it is unpleasant). Sleeping after those atrocities would be difficult if you didn't have an unflinching belief in the code to tuck you in at night ;D

[/blockquote]

You can tell that I suck at anything with involves neutrality :D Except for maybe where druids and rangers are concerned as that sort of makes sense and is something I can understand. Having an unwavering faith in a code while being detached from morality would provide that buffer and allow for that good night's sleep, yeah. 

I kind of want to run a thought experiment on different choices the game throws at us because I have a hard time with this alignment because it seems so fluid - which is great!

So, what would a LN follower of Meridia do with the Saadia/Alik'r thing? 

What about a Vigilant of Stendarr during the Paarthurnax decision? 

^ I'm guessing they could be considered LN in alignment...?

I think what one would do in different situations depends on what kind of code/laws they follow. A Vigilant most likely would kill Paarthurnax on the contrary a follower of Meridia wouldn't be so hard pressed to kill him and some other character like a pure thief for example might chose not to kill him because he might consider him even though he is a dragon a "connection" that could be utilized for future gains. That is also what makes this alignment pretty cool but sometimes it's hard to keep that Neutral part since as you mentioned above the code you follow might not be perfect which can lead to other interesting things (questioning of the code or a slight change of view on it etc). 

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Duvain]Duvain[/url] said:[/b]

....which can lead to other interesting things (questioning of the code or a slight change of view on it etc). 

[/blockquote]Yeah, from a storytelling point of view, that's where things get fun--questioning the code is like a crisis of faith, the ramifications of which could have devastating consequences. That code, which has been your shield, suddenly stops protecting you. What's worse, the potential guilt isn't applied to just present and future acts; its retroactive. Suddenly those past deeds start sleeping with you. From there, I don't see a character ever being LN again. It seems like a character going through that would be hesitant to swap out one code for another, but rather make a pretty major shift to some other alignment (or at the very least pure neutral)  

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/ShinJin]ShinJin[/url] said:[/b]

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Duvain]Duvain[/url] said:[/b]

....which can lead to other interesting things (questioning of the code or a slight change of view on it etc). 

[/blockquote]Yeah, from a storytelling point of view, that's where things get fun--questioning the code is like a crisis of faith, the ramifications of which could have devastating consequences. That code, which has been your shield, suddenly stops protecting you. What's worse, the potential guilt isn't applied to just present and future acts; its retroactive. Suddenly those past deeds start sleeping with you. From there, I don't see a character ever being LN again. It seems like a character going through that would be hesitant to swap out one code for another, but rather make a pretty major shift to some other alignment (or at the very least pure neutral)  

[/blockquote]

I'm trying to identify a scenario in which that could happen in terms of gameplay in Skyirm. Are there any hooks that would allow for such a moment? Say for example I am a ranger, a follower of Kynareth, and my code is something along the lines of protecting nature or allowing her to do her thing un-messed with by man, mer or betmer. The law I follow is that of the natural world, and I put it first in all things: I see foresters logging at a sacred site and I warn them off, if they continue I kill 'em. Extreme, perhaps. I scare tham off maybe. Something, at any rate. Can anyone think of a scenario where that code could be tested in-game? Or any other scenarios where a LN-aligned character could be so tested?

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

Can anyone think of a scenario where that code could be tested in-game? Or any other scenarios where a LN-aligned character could be so tested?

[/blockquote]For me, I can see a person getting hung up on The Civil War quest at the end. Youve seen a whole lot of death already, but it's been mostly faceless strangers up to that point. It gets more personal and real when it comes time to dispatch Tulius/Ulfrich. I've always felt uneasy there.

The Main Quest and Paarthanax could be another one of those catalysts for crisis (Oh my gosh, 'Catalyst for Crisis' will be the name of the metal band that I never form (right after my never-to-be-formed punk band... 'The Sleestacks')). Killing an ally/friend/mentor in the name of the code could definitely do it. After 5 or so years of playing this game, I still haven't done it.

The Dark Brotherhood could also be tricky. I had trouble wrecking that wedding and ending a scenario wherein Skyrim could potentially be unified, so that would already get doubts bouncing around inside me, but killing Titus Mede--he's so candid and personal in his discussion with you even though he knows why you're there--that's a tough one for me.

But I'm an overly emotional player, and perhaps these had not the slightest impact on anyone else. This would actually make a great post in and of itself; I'd love to hear which quests have caused a personal crisis for members of the site.

Yeah always following the rules and remaining neutral is not as easy as it sounds.

Regarding Civil War Ulfric is in my top most hated character list in Skyrim and I think he has the first place. What he 's doing is literally a VIP ticket towards the downfall of the Empire and along with it Skyrim and no matter what one will say, from a historical point of view and looking at it as a neutral (see what I did there :D) you just can't like what he did at such a time and that is why he is also considered an asset to the Thalmor because he is one of their greatest assests indeed weakening both Skyrim and the Empire in many ways (army, money, racial unity etc). Check This they just leave him be for now because he started something highly beneficial to them even if he wins the Civil Wa and end it that is still a Civil War that he started making Skyrim and the Empire weaker in the end. No matter how much one might like the Stormclaks what Ulfric is doing is wrong in many leves even if he makes a fair point in some areas my personal opinion is that he is using all of it for his personal gains, purpose, ambition whatever it might be. I digress but had to take this one out. :P On the contrary when I played as a Stormclak I always had the feeling that what I did was wrong can't say I enjoyed it and especially killing Tulius, my Stormcloak character was a short lived one. :P

Same here with Paarthurnax.

Same with the DB as well. :P

It is kinda hard for me to follow the lawful neutral train of thought because I go with emotion and logic/personal thoughts not just the character's roleplay if he is a lawful neutral when playing. That's why 90% of what I make is in the Chaotic Neutral side going in and out with a bang. :D

Digging the in depth discussion guys, lots of good points made!