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Shezzarine/Nerevarine/Dragon Born

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  • Tom
    Member
     
    September 3, 2015

    No he doesn't. There's only one Shezarrine at a time. If you're referring to the Arcturian Heresy where it's implied that the Underking is Zurin, then you must take a moment and recall that this occurs after both Zurin and Wulfharth are captured and used to power the Mantella.

    Unless you're referring to something else, then by all means share.

  • Leon
     
    September 4, 2015
    Dude even the uesp classifies Arctus as a Shezzarine. Even if there might be a lot of Kirkbride influence. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shezarrine
  • Skytsav
    Member
     
    September 5, 2015

    Interesting thing about Dragon Souls.

    First off, in Dawnguard, you go to the Soul Cairn. You either lose your soul and maintain mortality, by giving it to the ideal masters (you get it back though) or you become a vampire (giving your soul to Molag Bal). The problem with option number 2 is that...well...you lose the Dragon soul. What's up with that?

    And then curing Vampirism involves replacing your soul with some other chump's soul. That's great, but human soul. No Dragon soul. What's up with THAT?

    And to answer your question, I don't think the Dragon soul replaces Lorkhan's heart. The Dragon soul, even though it's a powerful and quasi-immortal soul, is still just a soul. Zurin Arctus had one, Pelinal Whitestrake has one, Talos is just blessed with both. However, if the Dragonborn were to, I don't know, replace their heart with a heartstone/briar seed...? Maybe keep themselves "alive" through necromantic rituals...? Lorkhan-born anyone?

  • Leon
     
    September 6, 2015
    Actually when you cure yourself from vampirism, you kinda coerce Molag bal into giving your soul in exchange for another soul.
  • Paws
    Member
     
    September 6, 2015

    Teej I think your thinking along the right lines in making those connections and it shows you're asking the right questions. I would say it's not so much a case of one = one but more like how they are similar thematically. It's hard to describe, but imagine stories or pieces of music from many different cultures and how they might share common themes. Then think of the parallels between the overall story of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim and spot the riffs.

    Btw, a general discussion such as this need only be tagged "Lore: General Discussion" including the quotation tags. If you were to submit this as an article, complete with sources and a compelling argument as to how they are the same thing then you'd tag it as "Lore: Metaphysics" or whichever tag you felt more relevant to the post - we tend to go by the primary tag when putting a piece of work on Apocrypha's shelves as it saves duplicating the same post over and over in different categories. That make sense?

  • Tom
    Member
     
    September 7, 2015

    If you could take a moment t read that particular note, and pay attention to the names listed... They are all pieces or alternate names or titles for Talos.

    Zurin is part of Talos. Not because he is Shezarrine.

  • Teej
    Member
     
    September 8, 2015

    I'm really just trying to justify a dunmer dragon born. And more than just the "dragon born can be any race" deal with being a hero of akatosh or whatever. While I understand that's probably the easiest way to explain it, I wanted to have it be more Dunmeri in origin.

    That being said, I find it incredibly hard to justify a dragonborn being anything but imperial or nord. So, basically, I'm trying to see if justifying a dunmer dragon born that has to do something with lorkhan's heart would be plausible, and need some help filling in the admittedly big gaps that are there.

  • Paws
    Member
     
    September 8, 2015

    Presumably Katariah could wear the AoK. I'm not sure what your interpretation of Dragon Blooded vs Dragonborn but in my mind being able to wear the Amulet of Kings makes one the Imperial version of a Dragonborn.

    Also, how about this? In Five Songs of King Wulfarth it is said that:

    This Nerevar is the son of Boethiah, one of the strongest Padomaics. He is a hero to his people despite his Tribunal, and he shall muster enough that this battle will be harder going still.

    Compare that to The Song of Pelinal, On His Madness:

    [And it is] said that he emerged into the world like a Padomaic, that is, borne by Sithis and all the forces of change therein.

    In the 36 Lessons the relationship between Lorkhan and Boethiah is quite strong:

    'The fire is mine: let it consume thee,
     And make a secret door
     At the altar of Padhome,
     In the House of Boet-hi-Ah
     Where we become safe
     And looked after.'

    I'm going to go out on a limb and back you up by saying that thematically the role of Shezarrine and Nerevarrine are the same, each fulfill the same purpose in their respective stories.

  • Teej
    Member
     
    September 8, 2015

    thanks man, this helps a ton. I'm probably gonna start this build and put it up on the workshop for some extra feedback. We'll see when I feel like I have enough time to do it, but hopefully soon. 

    thanks again for the help and the encouragement 

  • Paws
    Member
     
    September 9, 2015

    No worries I'm simply offering a different perspective as I see it. There is no guarantee here, but the idea exists in lore so it can be misinterpreted as much as we desire

    If we want to really get stuck into the true parallels between each story, I think we need to disregard such concepts as Shezarrine and Dragonborn and look instead at the role of The Prisoner.


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