Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


The Ancient Nordic Pantheon

  • Tom
    Member
    July 30, 2014

    Mara is the Handmaiden of Kyne, who is a warrior-goddess. The wolf carving depicts a fierce looking wolves, snarling with claws showing and very wild-looking woman.

    Dibella is Shor's bedmate or consort. The moth displays a remarkably beautiful woman in a very elegant gown.

  • Member
    July 30, 2014

    Good thoughts on the Forsworn connection to Kyne and Lorkhan's Heart. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the Old Gods to comment on any other connection though.

    Vaz, I don't know how much is down to my upbringing and my younger days in the Cubs in which my Arkala was a woman, but wolves and Mara seem to fit together better to me than moths and Mara. It could be because I've always viewed wolves as being matriarchal and nurturing which fits Mara's sphere. Like I say, it could just be me but it's along the same sort of thing as to why owls are considered wise; no idea where it comes from but it's there. That make sense?

    Another thought, one which you guys probably won't like lies in the cyclical nature of Nordic myth. There are hints in the game about kalpas and cycles, but the true lore lies in out-of-game stuff (yet again). To give an example, have a look at Goddess of Storm, Mother of Nords and then compare with MK's notes on things that never got fleshed out in game:

    "Nord gods are intrinsically understood to be cyclical, just like the world is. There are the Dead Gods, who fought and died to bring about the new cycle, the Hearth Gods, who watch over the present cycle, the Testing Gods, who threaten the Hearth and thus are watched, and the Twilight Gods, who usher in the next cycle. The end of a cycle is said to be prefigured by the Dragonborn God... a god that did not exist in the previous cycle but whose presence means that the current one is almost over...."

    There could well be a triple-goddess aspect to Dibella, Mara and Kyne, like a past,present and future conation.

    Dibella is the youth, the chrysalis of the next cycle maybe, a Twilight God to use Kirkbride's words. There are a few moth themes there.

    Kyne is the current major goddess and is associated with endings just as the current kalpa seems to be nearing an end - the Dovahkiin reappears.

    Mara in Nord mythology isn't as important as the Imperial version. However, her connection to birth and motherhood is still present in Nord culture as the word Handmaiden conjures up all sorts of matronly roles. So in this respect I reckon Mara could have been a bigger figure in the previous cycle.

    Shor son of Shor also gives us greater insight into the nature of the gods and the cycles, but it is still  an out-of-game source at this time.

  • Tom
    Member
    July 31, 2014

     It could be because I've always viewed wolves as being matriarchal and nurturing which fits Mara's sphere. Like I say, it could just be me but it's along the same sort of thing as to why owls are considered wise; no idea where it comes from but it's there. That make sense?

    Thank classical mythology for both. Remus and Romulus were nursed by a she-wolf before founding Rome and I believe a few other elder gods and heroes were said to be raised by she-wolves.

    The connection with owls and wisdom stem from Athena as the goddess of wisdom and owls being her favored bird.

  • Member
    July 31, 2014

    Huh, so. Thanks Tom 

  • Tom
    Member
    July 31, 2014

    I didn't think of it at the time of my last reply, but that does reinforce the idea of Mara as represented by the wolf. Imperials view Mara as the mother goddess instead of Kyne, Imperials are obviously Roman.

  • Member
    July 31, 2014

    Good point, well presented. I think there is still a bit of debate as to Orkey and Ysmir and whether they fit into the totemic pantheon.

    The OP is updated with Alduin now.

  • Tom
    Member
    July 31, 2014

    I think we can dismiss Orkey fairly easily.

    A loan-god of the Nords, who seem to have taken up his worship during Aldmeri rule of Atmora. Nords believe they once lived as long as Elves until Orkey appeared; through heathen trickery, he fooled them into a bargain that 'bound them to the count of winters'. At one time, legends say, Nords only had a lifespan of six years due to Orkey's foul magic. Shor showed up, though, and, through unknown means, removed the curse, throwing most of it onto the nearby Orcs.

     

  • Member
    July 31, 2014

    Are you still holding out Herma-Mora is the Snake?

  • Tom
    Member
    July 31, 2014

    Shor's convinced me of changing the snake to Ysmir.

  • July 31, 2014

    No, no. The Snake is Shor, and Ysmir is the fox.