This is one of the alignments I have trouble with describing with my own system but I'll do my best. Due to being lawful they will follow the law to the letter and generally hold a high respect for the ruler of a land, but being neutral they will mostly be looking out for themselves and those close to them so I'd have to say this character would be akin to most non-combatants you'd find in cities such as farmers and merchants. As for combatant versions of them I have a really hard time thinking of them as fighters, perhaps a city guard who's working only for the pay might work but that's stretching the meaning of "neutral" a bit towards good since they'll still be risking their lives for complete strangers sometimes.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Solyeuse]soly[/url] said:[/b]

Well, perhaps cold isn't the right word here. Going back to that town guard, if I were behind a simple LN Guard, would I feel unhappy at arresting that homeless kid? Well, maybe, depending on the guard.

It's about adherence to the law (whichever law), in the end. If the punishment for stealing is to cut a person's hands off, you better believe that the LN guard will believe it's justified and will do it to a homeless orphan. Even if he thinks it's cruel, he'll do it. Even if he thinks it's needlessly cruel, he'll do it as long as he believes it is somehow justified according to the law. Is it edging into Lawful Evil territory? Arguably not. It's delicious how close it gets (and some examples do cross the line), but I'd put this guard firmly on the LN side of the Moral Line.

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I guess even neutrality is a spectrum. Personally I wouldn't punish the kid if I were behind the guard, but maybe I just naturally stray to the good side of neutral. Your justification makes complete sense, so I'm probably just a bit of a wuss :P I do agree that I love how blurred the lines are, makes for some very interesting roleplay.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Ebonslayer]Ebonslayer[/url] said:[/b]

This is one of the alignments I have trouble with describing with my own system but I'll do my best. Due to being lawful they will follow the law to the letter and generally hold a high respect for the ruler of a land, but being neutral they will mostly be looking out for themselves and those close to them so I'd have to say this character would be akin to most non-combatants you'd find in cities such as farmers and merchants. As for combatant versions of them I have a really hard time thinking of them as fighters, perhaps a city guard who's working only for the pay might work but that's stretching the meaning of "neutral" a bit towards good since they'll still be risking their lives for complete strangers sometimes.

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You make a good point regarding citizens, I suppose most people in Skyrim would be LN as they don't really act Good or Evil, just surviving, although I guess the 'can a bystander be innocent' point could be raised...

Do you think a mercenary could be considered LN in some circumstances (although they're usually considered NN)? I mean not all payed swords kill for the sake of killing and the money is just an added bonus, some of them would stick to the rules when getting a job done. Well, to a certain extent anyway.

Obviously it depends on the mercenary, though I'd argue that a large subset can and should fall under at least x Neutral (the Good and Bad ones can exist, but I'd expect them to be outliers... and therefore more of them to exist than the actual Neutral ones). Whether they're LN, TN, or CN, well... it's hard to generalise from only the mercenary job. I'd say they're more likely to lean Lawful though, there has to be a certain respect for the paid contract in the job. Though of course that's only a small facet of a mercenary's life and you can probably easily write plausible mercenaries for all three. Just because a merc is chaotic, for example, doesn't immediately mean he doesn't respect the contract - but perhaps it does mean he's more likely to desert the contract if a better one is dangled in his face and he thinks he can get away with it.

The thing is, basically everything about alignments is somewhat subjective, but it's good for you as a person and roleplayer to use to think about who and what your character is.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Zonnonn]Zonnonn[/url] said:[/b]

Do you think a mercenary could be considered LN in some circumstances (although they're usually considered NN)? I mean not all payed swords kill for the sake of killing and the money is just an added bonus, some of them would stick to the rules when getting a job done. Well, to a certain extent anyway.

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I don't think a merc could be Lawful Neutral unless they have some sort of code that stops them from taking questionable jobs (like Geralt in Witcher), a mercenary who doesn't have such a code would be a True Neutral because they really wouldn't give a shit about anything other than their next paycheck.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/ShinJin]ShinJin[/url] said:[/b]

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

It's interesting to think how that moral code would change between each coven or whatever. Those camping at a shrine to Azura would be different to those cavorting around a Sanguine shrine, but would representatives from each still be LN?

[/blockquote]I'm inclined to say yes. In fact, that is perhaps the greatest draw for me regarding this character alignment: imagine two characters wholeheartedly bent on doing what they know is right, and yet they somehow find themselves at odds with the other--that makes for some fantastic writing. Now, imagine a reader who finds himself identifying with both characters for different reasons... that's a recipe for awesome :D

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[blockquote][b][url=/profile/KarverTheLorc]The Lorc of Flowers[/url] said:[/b]

Ok, so that´s sort of what I´m following most of the times. But there´s one thing I always do when it comes to Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral. I can´t help myself but to see them as religious characters, and if I had to draw a line between them I would say that Lawful Good is that kind of nice priest comforting people and shit, while Lawful Neutral is more of the doomsday priest shouting on the streets, forcing his belief on other people.

So, maybe we could say that the main difference between Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral is tolerance. Hm?

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[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Zonnonn]Zonnonn[/url] said:[/b]

I think I agree with Shin here. The law doesn't necesarilly mean the law of the land. It could be a set of morals personal to a character, a code of honour amongst thieves, the Dark Brotherhood Tenets (I think that's what they're called). To me its more of a commitment to a cause that anything else, for good or bad. Loyalty at its finest basically.

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Interesting stuff. Karver's quote portrays them as zealous, my quote says they aren't. Potentially two characters from different faiths, both quite passionate about the code their religion exemplifies, could share the same alignment but rub each other up the wrong way like nothing else. That does make for some interesting scenarios for writing :D 

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Paws]Paws[/url] said:[/b]

Interesting stuff. Karver's quote portrays them as zealous, my quote says they aren't. Potentially two characters from different faiths, both quite passionate about the code their religion exemplifies, could share the same alignment but rub each other up the wrong way like nothing else. That does make for some interesting scenarios for writing :D 

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This is what makes it really interesting to me. Karver's point suggests passion and dedication, following their strict code no matter what. While Soly's point regarding citizens paints them as the opposite, following the rules because they don't follow anything else, and do so more because they're there than for any bond between them. It really shows what an interesting alignment this is!

Even though I like the Neutral alignment I always go with Chaotic Neutral which is also my favorite alignment in general and have never been a fan of Lawful Neutral, that being said I still might use it sometimes and I think it can make for some interesting characters.

Going strictly by D&D standards Lawful Neutral characters favor discipline and order above all else and that can go both ways, one can be an advocate of laws and beliefs that upkeep the general good or follow a personal code of conduct that will still be on the same page as the previous which means it will be on the "General Good" side.

Taking the alignment out of DnD standards then you just have a character who follows the rules to the letter and still favors discipline and order but then it will become more complex because there will be a new thing added and that would be "Good" and "Evil". In D&D this alignment even though it says neutral is still leaning mostly to the good or better side if you will. The majority of people and societies for better or worse have set a few things which are commonly seperated into Good or Evil/Bad. So a lawful neutral character out of the D&D standards will still go about following laws and beliefs and his personal code of conduct but another element will come into play and that is if his beliefs will be on what the majority of organised societies are thinking as good or evil/bad. For example one might be an assassin and follow the Dark Brotherhood's tenets and Sithis or be a follower of Hircine and think of hunting and killing beasts and humans as the same thing and someone else might be a wandering knight wishing to make the world a better place and will stay true to his personal code of conduct till his last breath which would be to help those in need and all these knight stuff. So for me if we were to take the Lawful Neutral out of D&D standards it would become a bit of a more complex alignment and it could seperate into Good Lawful Neutral and Evil Lawful Neutral or something along these lines.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Duvain]Duvain[/url] said:[/b]

So for me if we were to take the Lawful Neutral out of D&D standards it would become a bit of a more complex alignment and it could seperate into Good Lawful Neutral and Evil Lawful Neutral or something along these lines.

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I mentioned this in a different response, but I absolutely think that even in an alignment there's still a spectrum. A character might lean Good or Evil in general (but still stay Neutral of course), or even change depending on how they feel, but there's definitely still room for versatility.

Yeah Zonnonn I also believe that there is always a spectrum because we are talking about individuals and you can often see people changing their way of acting depending on situations they might come across.

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Zonnonn]Zonnonn[/url] said:[/b]

[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Duvain]Duvain[/url] said:[/b]

So for me if we were to take the Lawful Neutral out of D&D standards it would become a bit of a more complex alignment and it could seperate into Good Lawful Neutral and Evil Lawful Neutral or something along these lines.

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I mentioned this in a different response, but I absolutely think that even in an alignment there's still a spectrum. A character might lean Good or Evil in general (but still stay Neutral of course), or even change depending on how they feel, but there's definitely still room for versatility.

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[blockquote][b][url=/profile/Duvain]Duvain[/url] said:[/b]

Yeah Zonnonn I also believe that there is always a spectrum because we are talking about individuals and you can often see people changing their way of acting depending on situations they might come across.

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Do you think that demonstrates that neutrality is hard to stick to? Sitting on the fence or being apathetic can protect oneself from the hard things, but when all is said and done we're human (or mer, or cat, or lizard :p) and even if we are LN and have our own moral code, in the face of extremes it's really hard to maintain an emotional distance. 

On the subject of having a code or law to follow, does it render a LN character a bit confused when that code doesn't hold the answer in a particular scenaraio?