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Lore Article: The Importance of Talos

Tags: #Phil  #Lore: Historical Figures  #Lore: Metaphysics 
  • December 27, 2015

    Even better if the DB is a Shezzarine. Wulfharth was both and Hjalti was one too. I just didn't say that 'cause I didn't want to delve into the whole Shor/Lorkhan thingy, unless it's okay. 

  • December 27, 2015

    I think it's unlikely. Because an incarnate of Shor now is a part of Talos oversoul, i.e. is a god, which makes me think that there won't be more Shezzarines.

  • December 27, 2015

    But Talos worship has been banned. The ninth god is missing again. In a figurative sense, he is missing. Even his shrine is gone from the temple of the divines. This is a symbolic absence at the very least. And I'm discussing a symbolic scenario. 

    You just don't want more Shezzarines, Thorien.   

    I'm teasing you. You know I love the Elves. 

  • December 27, 2015

    Tullius seems less likely to me because he is an active participant and not really a witness, I'd rather put him in the place of Cuhlecain instead of Torygg, since he represents the Empire that Ulfric betrays. And the dragons... though they do lose their souls, it's another war entirely, not tied to the civil war, so I wouldn't place them in that picture at all.

    Hmmm, what that "half here" could mean?..

  • December 27, 2015

    Dragons are tied to Nord culture. In my mind there is also a mini scenario between Paarthurnax, Alduin, and the ancient war that is similar, and I also play around with things for my own benefit, but that's another topic entirely and I don't feel like going into it.

    The Rebel betrays the King. Cuhlecain is long out of the picture by then. 

    Wulfharth is the King. 

    In the case of Talos' apotheosis Zurin takes the form of the witness when the Imperial Guards attack Wulfharth and Arctus uses a Soul gem on him. This act marks Ysmir [Wulfharth] as the King in the enantiomorph and thus makes Talos the Rebel. One of the key aspects of the Oserver's role is that they must be maimed in the process. In this instance it is Wulfharth's heart which kills Arctus. Although it isn't explicitly stated my interpretation of Wulfharth's final act is that the soul trap spell also captures Zurin Arctus. It could very well be that the heart of Ysmir burning a hole through Arctus' chest is symbolic in the same way blood is often uses interchangeably with soul and therefore the heart is seen as the home of the soul. Whatever the reason, inside the soulgem there is now one shared soul.

    As the last man standing, the Rebel Talos is now the inheritor of the position of King. This itself might be enough for him to ascend but I think there is a final step needed.

    I could maybe see Tullius, but Tullius doesn't die unless Ulfric wins the war and Torygg is directly killed right in the beginning. Killing Cuhlecain is what started Hjalti on his path in the first place. While you could argue that Ulfric starts the rebellion from the Markarth incident, it really gets going when he kills Torygg. 

  • Member
    December 27, 2015

    That would quite the interesting tid bit. Though, it would also make one wonder, if the DB was a non-Human. Would Shor be willing to incarnate into a Mer? Considering he and Tsun were slain by Merish gods? In fact, where IS Shor, since Tsun still stands guard? Where are Stuhn and Kyne? 

  • December 27, 2015

    It's not about what I want) Actually I would prefer one of those guys walk Nirn than be a god. But I think that the Dragonborn of all people being a Shezzarine is not really logical, a Dragonborn is an Akatosh-made entity, not Lorkhan.

    Just like I doubt that Hjalti was actually a Shezzarine. It would mean that there wasn't a recreation of the Creation Myth, as the representation of the King would be missing. Also, can there be more than one Shezzarine at a time?

    As for Talos missing... well, when the people in Atmora were worshipping Lorkhan, he was already missing. And many people in Skyrim still worship Talos despite the Concordat.

    Am I that funny to tease? Lol)

  • Member
    December 27, 2015

    Well yes, but, from what I recall, Akatosh is more or less an analogue of the ancient Atmoran version of Alduin, as well as Alduin's dad. Can the Aedra have biological children, or is it more of an incarnation dealio? Did he split part of his power and shape it into Alduin?

  • December 27, 2015

    You're right. But Tullius wasn't in the picture at all by the time Torygg was killed, he appeared much later. Oh, but there is also the actual Emperor who also gets killed there, how could I forget that?! Well, he wasn't killed in the war, but definitely because of it... What will you say about that?

  • December 27, 2015

    That is a good question. I suspect they can (or at least could), otherwise how the Aldmer came to be? The dragons though... I think that's what Akatosh did, split a part of his power. And that's not only Alduin (he was only the first) but also Paarthurnax and the rest of them. And I don't think they are incarnations, as there are many of them at he same time, wich doesn't make sence, just like with the Shezzarines.