Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Shezzarine/Nerevarine/Dragon Born

• Teej

  

  Member
   

  September 3, 2015

  so how about the idea that the dragon born are shezzarine?

  so how about the idea that the dragon born are shezzarine?
• Leon

  
   

  September 3, 2015

  That doesn't explain dem dragon powers.

  That doesn't explain dem dragon powers.
• Leon

  
   

  September 3, 2015

  If anything a dragonborn is technically the opposite, just looks the same becuase his mere existance is technically a dragon break, which is very chaotic even though he's a anuic avatar.

  If anything a dragonborn is technically the opposite, just looks the same becuase his mere existance is technically a dragon break, which is very chaotic even though he's a anuic avatar.
• Teej

  

  Member
   

  September 3, 2015

  so than how do you explain Tiber Septim?

  so than how do you explain Tiber Septim?
• Leon

  
   

  September 3, 2015

  Well, talos seems to be more than just one soul, similiar to how the tribunal is described as one soul in three. We have Hjalti who was a Dragonborn, we have ysmir who was a shezzarine and then we have Zurin who apparently was one aswell. Some think that when they created the numidium with the soul of zurin and ysmir they partially melded with hjalti, which would technically make him both dragonborn and shezzarine. Actually now that i think about it, if he did meld with those two that might create what tiber is, being avatar of the two main deities might also be big help with CHIM.

  Well, talos seems to be more than just one soul, similiar to how the tribunal is described as one soul in three. We have Hjalti who was a Dragonborn, we have ysmir who was a shezzarine and then we have Zurin who apparently was one aswell. Some think that when they created the numidium with the soul of zurin and ysmir they partially melded with hjalti, which would technically make him both dragonborn and shezzarine. Actually now that i think about it, if he did meld with those two that might create what tiber is, being avatar of the two main deities might also be big help with CHIM.
• Teej

  

  Member
   

  September 3, 2015

  So in that respect would it be possible to have a nerevarine dragon born? Maybe Dagoth Ur and Nerevar(sp?) souls were combined from lorkhans heart?

  So in that respect would it be possible to have a nerevarine dragon born? Maybe Dagoth Ur and Nerevar(sp?) souls were combined from lorkhans heart?
• Tom

  

  Member
   

  September 3, 2015

  No.

  As stated before, the Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Nerevar Indoril, the Chimer King and head of the Great Council. He is a Chimer/Dunmer cultural hero and is central to the formation of Resdayn/Morrowind and the Tribunal Temple. There haven't been a series of Nerevarines. Just Nerevar and the prophesized Nerevarine (only one) who would undo the Tribunal and restate the Anticipations.

  That's it. He has come and done what he was meant to do. He isn't dead because of the Corprus disease, and is effectively immune to all disease and biological immortality.

  The Shezzarine are the continuous (more than one) reincarnations of Shezzar (which is the Cyrodiilic name for Shor, who is Lorkhan). When Lorkhan's heart was removed, his spirit was condemned to wander the earth forever sundered from his divine essence.

  Pelinal, Wulfharth, Ysmir, Hans, etc. Always (as far as we know) a Man, and always involved in conflicts on the side of Man-Kind.

  Dragonborn are the Akatoshi equivalent of a Shezarrine.

  It is my theory that while Shezarrine and Dragonborn are not the same thing, Dragonborn are modeled after Shezarrine and might in fact be influenced by Lorkhan into something more resembling a Shezarrine.

  But that's a longer explanation that I'm not in the mood to elaborate on as of writing this.

  No.

  As stated before, the Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Nerevar Indoril, the Chimer King and head of the Great Council. He is a Chimer/Dunmer cultural hero and is central to the formation of Resdayn/Morrowind and the Tribunal Temple. There haven't been a series of Nerevarines. Just Nerevar and the prophesized Nerevarine (only one) who would undo the Tribunal and restate the Anticipations.

  That's it. He has come and done what he was meant to do. He isn't dead because of the Corprus disease, and is effectively immune to all disease and biological immortality.

  The Shezzarine are the continuous (more than one) reincarnations of Shezzar (which is the Cyrodiilic name for Shor, who is Lorkhan). When Lorkhan's heart was removed, his spirit was condemned to wander the earth forever sundered from his divine essence.

  Pelinal, Wulfharth, Ysmir, Hans, etc. Always (as far as we know) a Man, and always involved in conflicts on the side of Man-Kind.

  Dragonborn are the Akatoshi equivalent of a Shezarrine.

  It is my theory that while Shezarrine and Dragonborn are not the same thing, Dragonborn are modeled after Shezarrine and might in fact be influenced by Lorkhan into something more resembling a Shezarrine.

  But that's a longer explanation that I'm not in the mood to elaborate on as of writing this.

• Teej

  

  Member
   

  September 3, 2015

  Cool. Thanks for the answer

  Cool. Thanks for the answer
• Tom

  

  Member
   

  September 3, 2015

  And to clarify the Talos thing.

  Hjalti/Tiber was a Dragonborn, or became Dragonborn. This is wholly irrelevant to why he became Talos, beside the tendency for Dragonborn to conquer and dominate.

  Wulfharth was the Nordic King who was slain at the Battle for Red Mountain, the same battle where the Dwemer disappeared and after which Nerevar was slain. King Wulfharth is a Shezzarine, he is Shor's Spirit. This is why he was at Red Mountain. To fulfill an imitation of the moment his Heart was sundered, and perhaps even to retrieve it and become whole again.

  Zurin Arctus was just a man. A very powerful and intelligent mage, but nothing special beyond that.

  Now, you must know of how creation happened down the line:

  Anu, Padomay (Sithis), and Nirni. Is (Anu) and Is Not (Padomay/Sithis) fought over Maybe (Nirni), Maybe died and Is Not was banished.

  Anu dreams.

  Is is Stasis, Is Not is Change. Stasis and Change mix to form the Aubris (the Grey Maybe). Those regions of Aubris more akin to Stasis become Aetherius. Thos more aking to Change become Oblivion. The gods are a gradient or mixture between Anu and Padomay, with Auriel being he soul of Anu and Lorkhan being the soul of Padomay.

  Mundus (the mortal plane) and Nirn (the planet on the plane) are created when Three beings come into conflict, one dies or is maimed and one is removed from creation. Auriel and Lorkhan battle, Lorkhan is slain, Magnus is removed from creation.

  This is the pattern. A King, A Rebel, and an Observer. The King and Rebel are indistinguishable to everyone but the Observer.

  Anu was King, Padomay was Rebel, Nirni was the Observer.

  Auriel was King, Lohkan was the Rebel, and Magnus was the Observer pre-Creation.

  Lorkhan was King, Auriel was Rebel, and Magnus was the Observer in Mundus.

  Tiber, Wulfharth, and Zurin fulfill this. Tiber's betrayal of Wulfharth and Zurin Arctus' maiming to create the Mantella (which is a substitute for Lorkhan's Heart, the original source of power for Numidium) is a reenactment of the moment of Convention (when Lorkhan's Heart was removed and Time began in Mundus. The moment Creation ended).

  There are many ways of becoming a god. Talos achieved it by more way than one.

  And to clarify the Talos thing.

  Hjalti/Tiber was a Dragonborn, or became Dragonborn. This is wholly irrelevant to why he became Talos, beside the tendency for Dragonborn to conquer and dominate.

  Wulfharth was the Nordic King who was slain at the Battle for Red Mountain, the same battle where the Dwemer disappeared and after which Nerevar was slain. King Wulfharth is a Shezzarine, he is Shor's Spirit. This is why he was at Red Mountain. To fulfill an imitation of the moment his Heart was sundered, and perhaps even to retrieve it and become whole again.

  Zurin Arctus was just a man. A very powerful and intelligent mage, but nothing special beyond that.

  Now, you must know of how creation happened down the line:

  Anu, Padomay (Sithis), and Nirni. Is (Anu) and Is Not (Padomay/Sithis) fought over Maybe (Nirni), Maybe died and Is Not was banished.

  Anu dreams.

  Is is Stasis, Is Not is Change. Stasis and Change mix to form the Aubris (the Grey Maybe). Those regions of Aubris more akin to Stasis become Aetherius. Thos more aking to Change become Oblivion. The gods are a gradient or mixture between Anu and Padomay, with Auriel being he soul of Anu and Lorkhan being the soul of Padomay.

  Mundus (the mortal plane) and Nirn (the planet on the plane) are created when Three beings come into conflict, one dies or is maimed and one is removed from creation. Auriel and Lorkhan battle, Lorkhan is slain, Magnus is removed from creation.

  This is the pattern. A King, A Rebel, and an Observer. The King and Rebel are indistinguishable to everyone but the Observer.

  Anu was King, Padomay was Rebel, Nirni was the Observer.

  Auriel was King, Lohkan was the Rebel, and Magnus was the Observer pre-Creation.

  Lorkhan was King, Auriel was Rebel, and Magnus was the Observer in Mundus.

  Tiber, Wulfharth, and Zurin fulfill this. Tiber's betrayal of Wulfharth and Zurin Arctus' maiming to create the Mantella (which is a substitute for Lorkhan's Heart, the original source of power for Numidium) is a reenactment of the moment of Convention (when Lorkhan's Heart was removed and Time began in Mundus. The moment Creation ended).

  There are many ways of becoming a god. Talos achieved it by more way than one.

• Leon

  
   

  September 3, 2015

  Actually Zurin seems to be another Shezzarine as well.

  Actually Zurin seems to be another Shezzarine as well.