Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions

Dealing with inconsistencies: Clan Volkihar

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  This is great. Thank you. Exactly what I needed and how I think.

  Do you think that the architecture at Volkihar could still be Falmer though? It's so different from the Nordic stuff we typically see. 

  The good thing is that the statue of Mara is explained much easier. 

  What about Durnehviir? And Valerica seeking refuge in the Soul Cairn?

  So, Serana's reference to the Dwemer in present tense is then the inconsistency?

  EDIT: I'm so sorry for these questions. I just, above all, want a story that is as lore-friendly and consistent as possible. I agonized over Crystal-Like-Law and yes, I'll agonize over Dawnguard and everything else too. 

  This is great. Thank you. Exactly what I needed and how I think.

  Do you think that the architecture at Volkihar could still be Falmer though? It's so different from the Nordic stuff we typically see. 

  The good thing is that the statue of Mara is explained much easier. 

  What about Durnehviir? And Valerica seeking refuge in the Soul Cairn?

  So, Serana's reference to the Dwemer in present tense is then the inconsistency?

  EDIT: I'm so sorry for these questions. I just, above all, want a story that is as lore-friendly and consistent as possible. I agonized over Crystal-Like-Law and yes, I'll agonize over Dawnguard and everything else too. 

• Albino

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  Valerica would've gone to the Soul Cairn after sealing Serana away. How big the time gap between those two events is anyone's guess. As for Durnehviir, he couldn't have been tricked by the Ideal Masters into serving them for eternity until after Valerica became trapped in the Boneyard, otherwise his backstory doesn't make sense.

  Valerica would've gone to the Soul Cairn after sealing Serana away. How big the time gap between those two events is anyone's guess. As for Durnehviir, he couldn't have been tricked by the Ideal Masters into serving them for eternity until after Valerica became trapped in the Boneyard, otherwise his backstory doesn't make sense.

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  I know. My goal is to perhaps construct a timeline of events, so when I write about it, I don't look like a moron. Well, like such a big one anyway. 

  I know. My goal is to perhaps construct a timeline of events, so when I write about it, I don't look like a moron. Well, like such a big one anyway. 

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  An interesting thing to note is the first time you meet Valerica she says "by the Maker..."

  An interesting thing to note is the first time you meet Valerica she says "by the Maker..."

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  That is a plot hole I can't answer. Durny's arrival in the Soul cairn would be during the Dragon War, long before the Tyranny of the Sun prophecy was written and presumably long before the Snow Elves devolved. Maybe it's a time-whimey thing and it simply holds no meaning in the Soul Cairn? Valerica's arrival and Durnehviir's pact could be separated by thousands of years on Nirn but occur at the same moment inside the Soul Cairn? That would be consistent with what we know about the realms of Oblivion. I think...

  That is a plot hole I can't answer. Durny's arrival in the Soul cairn would be during the Dragon War, long before the Tyranny of the Sun prophecy was written and presumably long before the Snow Elves devolved. Maybe it's a time-whimey thing and it simply holds no meaning in the Soul Cairn? Valerica's arrival and Durnehviir's pact could be separated by thousands of years on Nirn but occur at the same moment inside the Soul Cairn? That would be consistent with what we know about the realms of Oblivion. I think...

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  The architecture answer will have to wait until we see Veloth's hypothesis. I've got a theory which may reconcile the older Volkihar lore seen in Immortal Blood and the newer Volkihar we see in the Dawnguard dlc.

  Valerica and Durny could be a time thing, see below.

  As for Serana, I don't know the dialogue I'm afraid. I tend to avoid Dwemer ruins whenever possible because I don't enjoy them so it's entirely possible I missed her mention them.

  Bear in mind that none of this should detract from your own conclusions. Because a prophecy from an Elder Scroll is involved it could ultimately be meaningless trying to establish a timeline. The very act of making a prophecy could ensure that certain things must happen regardless of how illogical they seem to our mortal minds. It seems like a cop-out but we just need to look at the Grey Fox and how weird all that is - My identity cannot be known. In fact I just told you my true name twice, but I bet you don't remember it. You and I have even met before, when I was not wearing the cowl. To your clouded memory he and I are two different people. My own family doesn't even know me. Only the power of an Elder Scroll could set this right.

  The architecture answer will have to wait until we see Veloth's hypothesis. I've got a theory which may reconcile the older Volkihar lore seen in Immortal Blood and the newer Volkihar we see in the Dawnguard dlc.

  Valerica and Durny could be a time thing, see below.

  As for Serana, I don't know the dialogue I'm afraid. I tend to avoid Dwemer ruins whenever possible because I don't enjoy them so it's entirely possible I missed her mention them.

  Bear in mind that none of this should detract from your own conclusions. Because a prophecy from an Elder Scroll is involved it could ultimately be meaningless trying to establish a timeline. The very act of making a prophecy could ensure that certain things must happen regardless of how illogical they seem to our mortal minds. It seems like a cop-out but we just need to look at the Grey Fox and how weird all that is - My identity cannot be known. In fact I just told you my true name twice, but I bet you don't remember it. You and I have even met before, when I was not wearing the cowl. To your clouded memory he and I are two different people. My own family doesn't even know me. Only the power of an Elder Scroll could set this right.

• The Long-Chapper

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  Yeah, I touch on how the Volkihar are depicted in Immortal Beloved in my narrative and try to marry it with how they're depicted in the DLC.  Probably got it wrong, but I do my best. I also touch on the different strains of vampirism and Vingalmo's involvement in the clan. My guy was alive in the third era, he knows one strain of vampirism, but not the one in Skyrim.

  Bleh, maybe I need to worry less and write more. 

  Yeah, I touch on how the Volkihar are depicted in Immortal Beloved in my narrative and try to marry it with how they're depicted in the DLC.  Probably got it wrong, but I do my best. I also touch on the different strains of vampirism and Vingalmo's involvement in the clan. My guy was alive in the third era, he knows one strain of vampirism, but not the one in Skyrim.

  Bleh, maybe I need to worry less and write more. 

• Chris

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  My theory for the differences between the Volkihar of Immortal Blood and Dawnguard, is that Harkon is a member of the Volkihar, who usurped the Clan from the old leader, and decided to reclaim his old castle (Or just killed or turned whoever was living in it) or, barring that, he's a vampire who started a Clan claming to be the legendary Volkihar

  My theory for the differences between the Volkihar of Immortal Blood and Dawnguard, is that Harkon is a member of the Volkihar, who usurped the Clan from the old leader, and decided to reclaim his old castle (Or just killed or turned whoever was living in it) or, barring that, he's a vampire who started a Clan claming to be the legendary Volkihar

• Paws

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  There are certain parallels between Immortal Blood and Forgotten Vale:

  I told him about the most powerful tribe, the Volkihar, paranoid and cruel, whose very breath could freeze their victims' blood in the veins. I explained to him how they lived beneath the ice of remote and haunted lakes, never venturing into the world of men except to feed. 

  But you should know that the Volkihar have an additional ability you didn't mention. They can reach through the ice of their lakes without breaking it. It was quite a nasty surprise, being grabbed from below without any warning.

  Voslaarum and Naaslaarum.

  There are certain parallels between Immortal Blood and Forgotten Vale:

  I told him about the most powerful tribe, the Volkihar, paranoid and cruel, whose very breath could freeze their victims' blood in the veins. I explained to him how they lived beneath the ice of remote and haunted lakes, never venturing into the world of men except to feed. 

  But you should know that the Volkihar have an additional ability you didn't mention. They can reach through the ice of their lakes without breaking it. It was quite a nasty surprise, being grabbed from below without any warning.

  Voslaarum and Naaslaarum.

• Veloth the Prophet

  

  Member
   

  September 1, 2015

  Sorry I'm not able to get screen shots beacuse my laptop keeps freaking out and freezing and I'm not sure why. But basically the parts that scream elvish to me are  Sundial and the door arches. I'll use some shots from google:

  This is the Under Croft of Castle Volkihar:

  

  See the pointed arches? Pretty much every door in the place is the same.

  Now look at the Chantry of Auriel:

  

  It's very much the same style. Also take a look at the sundial, if it doesn't scream Falmer then I don't know what does:

  

  Now there definitely is nord furnishings in the previously inaccessible areas of the Castle like nord furniture and carpets but I think the building itself is of Falmer design.

  Sorry I'm not able to get screen shots beacuse my laptop keeps freaking out and freezing and I'm not sure why. But basically the parts that scream elvish to me are  Sundial and the door arches. I'll use some shots from google:

  This is the Under Croft of Castle Volkihar:

  

  See the pointed arches? Pretty much every door in the place is the same.

  Now look at the Chantry of Auriel:

  

  It's very much the same style. Also take a look at the sundial, if it doesn't scream Falmer then I don't know what does:

  

  Now there definitely is nord furnishings in the previously inaccessible areas of the Castle like nord furniture and carpets but I think the building itself is of Falmer design.