Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Are The Thalmor Doing Any Good For Their People?

  • March 19, 2015

    True, however I'll just point out that every organization in TES history embellishes. The Empire brings peace and unity to all provinces, except for when they abandoned Morrowind during the Oblivion Crisis. The Stormcloaks fight for mankind, except Bretons, Imperials, and Redguards.

  • Member
    March 19, 2015

    I'm saying that there is one book about the Thalmor and it condemns them. There are no accounts that claim otherwise. Does it mean that one book writes the truth? Or that it's not as simple? I prefer the latter. TES usually presents two sides of the coin when dealing with issues like this. Example: Nords of SkyrimDunmer of Skyrim

    The alternative for Malborn can easily be thievery. In his own words "I stole a lot from the Thalmor over the years". He might've had his eyes on something expensive and decided to cover his tracks. Why he was caught? For all everyone knows he was simply doing his job serving wine. 

  • Member
    March 19, 2015

    On the other hand, when TES doesn't present two sides of the coin, it's usually because there isn't a whole lot of leeway in interpreting the subject. For example, there aren't any books they talk about how wonderful Potema's rule over Solitude was, nor are there any about argue that the Mythic Dawn allowed Mehrunes Dagon to invade Tamriel for the good of the people.

  • Member
    March 19, 2015

    True, but the events you described are clearly referenced by multiple independent sources or, in case of the latter, present in a game. While the exact actions of the Thalmor are only referenced by one clearly biased source and one book that condemns them. Personally, I think this was made deliberately and the next TES game may even focus on the Thalmor, in a way like Skyrim focuses on Civil War

  • Member
    March 19, 2015

    Fair point.

  • Member
    March 19, 2015

    Allow me to link you to this excellent piece of scholarship about the Thalmor and their aims: A Differing Perspective on Towers and Thalmor. It delves into the importance of the Towers and what they represent to Elven ideology, although I'm not sure it answers your questions which seem to be of the more mundane variety. The reason I feel it is relevant is because it may help you see things from their point of view or shed light on why they are doing what they do.

    There isn't much support on this site for any sort of oog texts, so all this is based off a few forum posts by one particular ex-writer, but I truly believe they will be validated in the end as they always have before. The writing's on the wall guys, you just need eyes to see it  Alternatively, Life in the Eagle's Shadow is worth a read because it's an interesting book which looks at the 2E Dominion through the eyes of a common mer.Again, it's not a pro-Aldmeri Dominion text and relates more to the past, but it starts with the author getting swept up in the grandeur of it all.

  • March 19, 2015

    "...but I truly believe they will be validated in the end as they always have before."

    Yeah, I'm worried too.

  • March 20, 2015

    There is a thin line between patriotism and fanaticism, mainly because both instill an "us versus them" mentality that, while very useful for politicians in times of war, is incredibly poisonous outside the battlefield. Anyone that isn't for us is against us and that normally means anyone acting outside their goals. You get this attitude with the whole idea of the "true _____". The true Nord, the true Elf, the real Dunmer. It goes on and on because one of TES's big themes (and I've always applauded them for it) is showing all sides and all possibilities of an incredibly real problem: racism, and in Skyrim, racism is turned into racial pride, which becomes even more toxic.

    Like Vaz said, we don't have any unbiased information on the Thalmor, but we basically have 2 options.

    1. The Thalmor goals are self-interested, driven by a lust for power. This makes the Thalmor very simple and it's not a theory I like. TES villains are not simple. Dagoth Ur, Ulfric/Tulius, and even Alduin to a certain extent (do not get me started on Oblivion) are very complex villains that make you think that maybe, just maybe, they have a point. For the Thalmor to be Bond villains would make me lose a lot of respect for Bethesda.

    2. The Thalmor goals are in the common interest, driven by selfless patriotism ("We are the only ones who can save our dying people, we can give them back their dignity"). This I like better and is what I hope Bethesda will go with eventually. The Thalmor are already brutal and willing to do whatever it takes to secure their ends, infected with an "old style" Altmer arrogance and poisonous racial pride (cough cough like the Nords cough cough). Basically, it boils down to what villain you prefer and I'd rather have the Thalmor being so blinded in their goal to help "true elves" that they will slaughter and torture to make the men remember what they've done, but that we remember the Thalmor have a point somewhere in their madness.
    And if there is another person who refers to the Thalmor as nazis, I'm going to blow my top. I wonder if there's a lore post somewhere that I can just link to when people accuse them of being nazis.

  • Member
    March 20, 2015

    The Thalmor are similar to the Third Reich and the Al Qaeda.

    The bullying of the "lesser races" into submission is similar to what the Nazis did during the Holocaust.

    Also, the Thalmor do "care for their own," it's just that the Thalmor see themselves as superior to all other races (similar to the Nazi idea of the "Aryan master race.")

    If you view the Thalmor as similar to the Al Qaeda, then they qualify as "a bunch of well-funded lunatics with swords and magic" except that suicide is not on their agenda.

    However, the concept of the Thalmor "master race" is odd - aren't the Thalmor made up of many races?

  • March 20, 2015
    The thing is that there's a difference between Tamriel and reality, which is why the nazis analogy makes very little sense to me. In reality, race really doesn't determine more than physical traits and cultural inheritance. In Tamriel, race determines longevity, which is the primary reason why Altmer have traditionally thought themselves the best race. Short answer: because they are. They have literally hundreds of yeas to perfect their trade and it's why Altmer are considered (in several lore books) to be the best in different fields, because perfection is bred into their culture due to their own insane lifespan. Every, literally EVERY, organized government in TES oppresses those they consider to be lesser. Dunmer, Argonians, elves, men, there's always a race because the TES races have never really got along. But the Thalmor don't want to round up humans and put them in concentration camps. Quite the opposite, they're fine with having humans bumbling around, but not in positions of power and authority, which they see to be theirs and unfairly taken from them. To be fair, most of TES history involves the elves getting the short end of the stick; the Divines left them, Lorkhan cheated them, and humans are known for their genocidal past times (I can count 3, but there's probably mores), not to mention having to be ruled by an Empire who hero-worships three men who actively tried to wipe out elves, almost making them saints. The Thalmor is a union of three primary races--Bosmer, Altmer, Khajiit--which is the ruling agency (CIA crossed with the senate) of the Aldmeri Dominion. The fact that it's the AlDmeri is important, since the Aldmer were the original elves, with all other elves and (theoretically) the Khajiit descending from the race closest to the gods, the Aedra. This line of purity is what the Thalmor are obsessed with and men are so far off being distant cousins that they aren't worth mentioning. Just imagine, though, if your entire society held their divine ancestry is such high esteem, but were being smacked down by mongrel misfits, what would you do? I've never heard them being compared to Al Quaeda, and I've heard everything from Stalinism to Thatcher (though that might've been a joke).