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Shor, Son of Shor

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  • Vaaljørn
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    See Phil's excellent explanation. Shor, Father of Shor (in the underworld) is out of the cycle (as you put it) or from a previous Kalpa. Same as Ald, Father of Ald.

  • Vaaljørn
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    Shor and Ald are dichotomous gods, always striving against each other but never escaping their cyclical reality. The Kalpas are endless - beginning and ending in exactly the same. Although the nuances of each Kapla might be slightly different (i.e., the end of Kalpa in the passage refers to "skin magic" and impersonations), Ald and Shor are doomed to repeat "the awful fighting."

  • Vaaljørn
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    I'm going to try to steer the discussion to the 4E. Preliminary thoughts:

    1) A Kalpa appears to end when the forces of Ald defeat (or come close to defeating) the forces of Shor. 

    2) If Ald is the Alduin we all know and love(!?), the appearance of Alduin heralds the end of a Kalpa. This much is stated in-game. He literally/figuratively "eats" the world.

    However, in the events of Skyrim, the Dragonborn defeats (not kills) Alduin. Does that mean, therefore, that the current Kalpa did not end? What implications can we draw from this? 

  • Tom
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    It's answered in conversation with Paarthurnax. When questioning whether or not the Dragonborn should intervene, wondering if Alduin's return was meant to happen to usher in the next kalpa, an option of dialogue for the Dragonborn runs along the lines of, "I don't want this world to end, the next will have to take care of itself."

  • Tom
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    I think it's better summarized by these two passages,

    Of the below he speaks, he is confused by it, for under us is only a prologue, and under that still is only a scribe that hasn't written anything yet.

    Of the above he speaks, Ald is confused by it, for above us is only an ending, and above that still is only a scribe that hasn't written anything yet.

    Trapped in an endless cycle.

  • Vaaljørn
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    Exactly what I was thinking. The end of the current kalpa was, at best, delayed. 

  • Vaaljørn
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    Since the end of a kalpa coincides with a near defeat by Shor (which is marked by the presence of Alduin), how did Shor get nearly defeated in the current kalpa? Talos has to be an integral figure in this

    Assume that Talos is the combination of Zurin Arctus (Magnus), Wulfharth (lorkhan/Shor), and Hjalti (Akatosh-dragonborn).

    Could the near defeat of Shor in the current kalpa have something to do with the downfall of the Empire and the subsequent banning of Talos worship? Without worship, an aspect of Talos, namely Shor, is being weakened. Alduin shows up to "eat the world." Talos interrupts the kalpa cycle by sending a dragonborn (part of himself - Akatosh).

    Okay. My brain is fried. I'm taking a break and logging back on in a few hours.  

  • Tom
    Member
     
    October 13, 2014

    Where the heck does it say the ending of a Kalpa coincides with Shor being defeated?

  • Deleted Member
     
    October 13, 2014
    Wouldn't Shor be the one to break the cycle instead of enabling it?
  • Paws
    Member
     
    October 14, 2014

    My interpretation is that the Kalpa begins with the removal of Lorkhan's heart and ends when Alduin eats the world.

    Time begins at Convention, see, which I think what is going on in the story.


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