The Elder Scrolls Online » Discussions


An Issue with Morrowind (the DLC)

  • February 18

    So, because I've recently hopped into ESO, I wanted to start a few discussions about parts of the game that I'm noticing a bit more and just sort of really get into it. The game is definitely a lot better now that I could play for hours without my internet deciding that it's too good for me, so yeah there's just a lot I want to talk about. To start, I want to discuss a massive issue with the Morrowind DLC (Chapter?) that I think drags down the experience of the game a bit.

    The Core Problem:

    I have no idea if this is changed with Summerset (since I don't own it) but on a theoretical level, Morrowind is half designed as if a new player could jump in and enjoy the game from the start. It's set up in the exact same way the base game is, at first glance. Just as a quick break, have you ever tried playing Morrowind as a new player (on your first character or just starting there on a second character?). Anyway, the DLC is fundamentally kind of broken in it's presentation because there's no real 'starting point' for the DLC content, at least not in the same way as the main game's and this is actually kind of detrimental to new players. Morrowind has a tutorial (which I'd argue is a lot better than Coldharbour) and it feels more or less the same for about 10 minutes afterwards, maybe longer as you go through that first little quest to start you on your path to Vivec, but it's past this point where you start to feel the lack of an equivelent of Bleackrock Isle or the other 'starting areas' that each Alliance has access to. 

    It lacks the density of quests, the density of basic resources (Iron Ore, Maple and Jute) and almost seems like it's harder...River Trolls which can be found directly outside Seyda Neen are definitely tankier than a lot of the enemies you fight on Bleackrock Isle and they're not exactly uncommon. Even the first few quests around Seyda Neen can involve dealing with enemies in larger groups than other early quests in the Alliance Starting Areas. Beyond this, you have issues like there being no Mage/Fighter's Guild questlines as far as I can tell and nothing to replace them within Vivec City which could be sort of seen as your first major city. Even then, it doesn't have anywhere near the density of Daggerfall (for example).

    None of these are really issues on their own, it's a DLC so expecting it to have the same quantity of content as the main game is a bit silly...but it's then also incredibly strange that the game forces you to start off in Seyda Neen. Now you can leave immedietly and head off to the main game, but that's sort of poorly handled, a bit clunky and there really should be a more obvious way for new players to tell (the Hooded Figure could appear as soon as you enter Seyda Neen. I've been playing two characters recently for roughly the same period of time, one that's gone through Morrowind and the other who's just starting some of the Quests in Daggerfall. That second character, is two levels ahead, has probably completed a half dozen more quests and has gathered a pretty great set of gear. He's just generally much further ahead despite the playing time being roughly equal. 

    Conclusion:

    It's strange. Morrowind tries to sell itself as a genuine starting point for newcomers, but the design of the DLC just makes it a lot harder for new members to get into than the base game. This could be purely my opinion, which is why I've posted it as more of a discussion (sorta) than a rant (again sorta).

    I wanted to end by asking whether you've played Morrowind as a starting player, and if you think the lack of density in content is an issue with the DLC? 

    Secondly, do you think it's an issue? I think a fair argument could probably be made that it's great to just be able to jump right into it even if the game is a lot slower early on. 

    For those that went into Morrowind directly from an older character (who had been through chunks of the main game) did you ever have an issue with the DLC or did it progress rather smoothly?

  • Member
    February 18

    My first time through Morrowind was on a new character; my now most played character, because I wanted to play a warden. I treat dlc zones differently then a lot of players, what I mean is that I ignore the main quest and explore the zone discorvering every location and doing the side quests first. I remember that doing this in Morrowind actually got Korysha up to a fairly decent level before I even touched the main quest. So to address some of what you've mentioned in your post, while Morrowind's quest givers aren't located as close together as a vanilla zone, if I am remembering correctly it has more questlines to follow with many of the quests you find having follow up quests that have you interacting more with those characters. So it certainly ends up providing a similar amount of content by the end. 

    Each new chapter comes with its own tutorial that then spits you out in the new zone so that you can immediately start those quests. I personally think it would be a nice idea to let the player choose which tutorial they want to start with so that they don't play the zones "out of order". For instance Morrowind, Clockwork City and Summerset share a story and for it to make the most sense they need to be played in that order. But with Summerset if you start a new character you start in that zone and need to travel to Morrowind to start that plot line from the beginning. Also whenever they have a recuring character like Raz or Naryu they don't go back and update your first meeting with them in the vanilla zones. So you can do the Morag Tong questline or even just Morrowind's tutorial and then meet Naryu in the Pact zones and she neither recognises you nor remembers anything that has happened. It's kind of jarring. And yet if you do the content in order of release these characters will remember your past meetings (Except Raz in Summerset who forgot that Korysha was an Eye of the Queen, Phil can try to talk it away but I will rememeber). All I'm saying is if they want to give the impression that you can do it in any order they should at least try to hide the seams.

    Also you can start the fighters and mages guild questlines in Morrowind; there are posters up, they just point you to your alliance's first big zone. 

  • Member
    February 18

    I totally hear you, there's a huge issue with new players starting in the Chapter zones that really messes with continuity. It's worse with Summerset because it is the final act in a stoy which spans Morrowind and Clockwork City. I think it's a marketing problem: On one hand it's great for new players to be able to experience the new content, and it's good for experienced players who know exactly how to navigate the world and story to get the experience they want... But on the other hand it's really jarring from an immersion and RP perspective because it forces you to meta-game and draw upon knowledge your character doesn't possess while causing confusion for new folks.

    There's always a vocal population emploring Zenimax to make these starting areas optional with the Wailing Prison as the default start. I'd like to see this happen because the narrative makes the most sense if you play through the base game MQ (Coldharbour) along with the Faction and Guild quests. Then play Orsininium, Morrowind, CWC, and finally Summerset. It's like, if you want Naryu or Raz to recognise you and have that emotional feedback, it only works if you have completed their base game quests - Naryu on Morrowind will recognise you from Deshaan, while Raz will acknowledge you as an old friend if you've already done the AD storyline. If you do Morrowind and Summerset first, encountering both later in the faction quests feels a bit flat in that there is no acknowledgement of your adventures together.

    With Summerset there is a workaround in the Psijic Order quests. That questline, while tedious, at least takes you around Tamriel and makes you feel unrestricted and that you're a trainee Psijic to whom time and space are relative concepts. You can easily shrug any continuity issues off with a, "this must be an effect of the temporal distortion and is part of a timeline I haven't landed in yet." (EDIT: That's how I "talk it away" as Goldie said :D - time is rupturing left and right in Summerset as the Tower gets assaulted and its magical ward over the islands diminishes). Indeed, it handles that in Summerset's MQ when one specific NPC says something like, "ah, time moves differently in Oblivion. What happened in Coldharbour is something you have yet to experience." That said, for a new player that level of knowledge about the Psijic Order and metaphysics isn't really optimal.

    I wanted to end by asking whether you've played Morrowind as a starting player, and if you think the lack of density in content is an issue with the DLC? .

    When I moved to PC, Morrowind was the default start for me. I was lucky because I was already very familiar with it from Xbox and so could navigate the quests and world to get the experience I wanted. With my main character I invented a reason to hop back to the mainland right off the bat. I figured the game's lore starts you off as a tourist who gets shipwrecked and enslaved - that was my excuse to say "eff to this, I'm going home" so I went straight to a navigator and booked passage off the island without ever starting the Morrowind MQ fully. Because the Naryu storyline only really starts in Balmora, by the time I returned to Vvardenfell many dozens of hours later, I felt no jarring to the continuity.

    I have also played the DLC as a new character just to experience Vvardenfell. I don't think I felt any lack of density. The issues you mention about resource nodes wasn't a problem by then as my craft bag was already stocked so there was no need for me to have to forage, while the harder creatures like River Trolls or Hive Golems could be easily fought by allocating my Champion Points or just long familiarity with the game's mechanics.

    However, I did find it better to stick to the narrative until after meeting Vivec for the first time. Only when he asked me to be his eyes and ears did I feel like the game let go of my hand and give me tacit approval to go off and do my own thing. So that's how I play it now, I stick very closely to the MQ until I feel that moment occur.

    Secondly, do you think it's an issue? I think a fair argument could probably be made that it's great to just be able to jump right into it even if the game is a lot slower early on.

    I do think it's an issue. I have a very big issue with a lot of the knowledge that isn't imparted to new players and there is a huge gulf that needs to be addressed between a new player and a player who freshly hits CP levels and wants to progress to harder content. The game does an okay job at orientating us with the Skill Advisor and level up system now, but still fails to tell us why it recommends certain skills. For instance, your character is a Warden magicka damage-dealer so you choose the Beast Caller build to follow. The skill advisor encourages you to take the Blue Betty morph of the Betty Netch skill, but doesn't tell you why. You can maybe intuit it by reading the description because it's a good skill, but what you might not know is that you really, really want to have this skill on your bar forever after and to keep it active at all times because it's going to give you Major Sorcery and restore your Magicka...

    And that's the rub - as you level you need to change skills and explore all options, so you might take it off your bar in order to enjoy other skills. Totally fine, you're playing solo content and can do as you please. But later (or even during solo play) when you want to do harder content and start wondering if you are doing enough damage to carry your weight in a group, or maybe even question why that River Troll is still a challenge, well that stuff is entirely outsourced to the community. I mean it's all there online and you can join guilds and get help to increase your damage, but this is an RPG too. RPG players are notoriously introspective. It potentially places the player in a situation they don't want to be in.

    All that said, I really do like the open-world nature of One Tamriel or Tamriel Unlimited (whatever it is they termed the non-linearity when that opened up). My advice to new players would be to relax, don't stress, play for a bit and don't think long-term just like you would in Skyrim. Embrace the idea that you'll want to change character and start again when your knowledge is greater. Until then, take it easy and have fun.

    For those that went into Morrowind directly from an older character (who had been through chunks of the main game) did you ever have an issue with the DLC or did it progress rather smoothly?

    Smooth as baby's buttocks if you play through the MQ first. Normally dlc is handled via a letter or pamphlet, so you just need to know how to get that letter. Normally this means going to Collections - Stories and Chapters in your menu screen, unlocking that option, and immediatley receiving the letter. Sometimes Events are handled via the Crown Store and needs to be purchased (for free) before you can unlock a quest event.

    In terms of story, though, it's pretty seamless and you get additional dialogue options if you bump into characters you've met in the base game. Naryu will remember you and some flirty dialogue opens up, for example. The game really does feel better if you play through it in chronological order.

  • February 18

    My first time through Morrowind was on a new character; my now most played character, because I wanted to play a warden. I treat dlc zones differently then a lot of players, what I mean is that I ignore the main quest and explore the zone discorvering every location and doing the side quests first. I remember that doing this in Morrowind actually got Korysha up to a fairly decent level before I even touched the main quest. So to address some of what you've mentioned in your post, while Morrowind's quest givers aren't located as close together as a vanilla zone, if I am remembering correctly it has more questlines to follow with many of the quests you find having follow up quests that have you interacting more with those characters. So it certainly ends up providing a similar amount of content by the end. 

    Oh, I'm sure that it's not an issue in the end, there's obviously a tonne to the DLC (Chapter?) and I've barely covered any of it. I imagine that once you really start going with the DLC content it's not an issue, hell by the time I got to Balmora I finally started getting some interesting quests and it wasn't bad at all (I think the quests are actually more interesting than some of the earlier quests for the Alliances...I love Heists, but I can't deny that Stros M'kai is boring as all fuck). Yeah, I think the issue would really be lessened if you gave Seyda Neen about three more quests, and sort of turned it into Noob's Hub. 

    Each new chapter comes with its own tutorial that then spits you out in the new zone so that you can immediately start those quests. I personally think it would be a nice idea to let the player choose which tutorial they want to start with so that they don't play the zones "out of order". For instance Morrowind, Clockwork City and Summerset share a story and for it to make the most sense they need to be played in that order. But with Summerset if you start a new character you start in that zone and need to travel to Morrowind to start that plot line from the beginning. Also whenever they have a recuring character like Raz or Naryu they don't go back and update your first meeting with them in the vanilla zones. So you can do the Morag Tong questline or even just Morrowind's tutorial and then meet Naryu in the Pact zones and she neither recognises you nor remembers anything that has happened. It's kind of jarring. And yet if you do the content in order of release these characters will remember your past meetings (Except Raz in Summerset who forgot that Korysha was an Eye of the Queen, Phil can try to talk it away but I will rememeber). All I'm saying is if they want to give the impression that you can do it in any order they should at least try to hide the seams.

    Urgh, so Summerset does it too. That's...kind of tough to be hojnest, not entirely terrible but tough. I imagine that we'll get another one with Eleswyr which will probably complicate things even more (especially if Abnur ends up being a part of it). But yeah, honestly if they just let you choose where you start the issue would probably be halved, I still would probably argue that you should have an equally developed starting point for all the DLC and main game, but then you have the issue of somebody going around completing all of them and then moving on to the actual game. 

    So yeah, probably some issues no matter how they do it since the literal worst thing to do would be to level lock the content or something. Or lock it in any form for that matter.

    Also you can start the fighters and mages guild questlines in Morrowind; there are posters up, they just point you to your alliance's first big zone. 

    Ah, what I meant is that there doesn't seem to be a Vvardenfell questline for either guild, or anything that allows you to play Morrowind and properly join the Guilds. You can be a member, but as far as I can tell you have to head to the mainland to actually do any of the quests for them. Which is alright if your popping by or whatever, but not so great for a new player. 

  • February 18

    I totally hear you, there's a huge issue with new players starting in the Chapter zones that really messes with continuity. It's worse with Summerset because it is the final act in a stoy which spans Morrowind and Clockwork City. I think it's a marketing problem: On one hand it's great for new players to be able to experience the new content, and it's good for experienced players who know exactly how to navigate the world and story to get the experience they want... But on the other hand it's really jarring from an immersion and RP perspective because it forces you to meta-game and draw upon knowledge your character doesn't possess while causing confusion for new folks.

     

    Urgh, as I said with Goldie it seems like that's really going to get complicated as you go along. I just had a realization but it seems like Elsweyr (which I'm probably going to spell wrong everytime I type it) is going to throw another angle into this if Abnur Tharn really is part of it like the trailer suggest. I'm a bit rusty on the Main Quest but I just...don't know how that's going to work. 

     

    Bah, anyway. Yeah, and really I think there might not be a great choice. The last thing we want is for the game to try and force you down a particular path like it did (to an extent) in the old days, there's a reason ESO was struggling for a bit before One Tamriel/Tamriel Unlimited. 

    There's always a vocal population emploring Zenimax to make these starting areas optional with the Wailing Prison as the default start. I'd like to see this happen because the narrative makes the most sense if you play through the base game MQ (Coldharbour) along with the Faction and Guild quests. Then play Orsininium, Morrowind, CWC, and finally Summerset. It's like, if you want Naryu or Raz to recognise you and have that emotional feedback, it only works if you have completed their base game quests - Naryu on Morrowind will recognise you from Deshaan, while Raz will acknowledge you as an old friend if you've already done the AD storyline. If you do Morrowind and Summerset first, encountering both later in the faction quests feels a bit flat in that there is no acknowledgement of your adventures together.

    Honestly, yeah fair enough. That would just about fix the entire issue for the most part, I mean there still would be a slight issue for those starting in Morrowind (or Summerset from the sound of things) but not quite as major because you could at least have the choice. Actually it might be even better because it would literally double your starting options (with Elsweyr). 

    With Summerset there is a workaround in the Psijic Order quests. That questline, while tedious, at least takes you around Tamriel and makes you feel unrestricted and that you're a trainee Psijic to whom time and space are relative concepts. You can easily shrug any continuity issues off with a, "this must be an effect of the temporal distortion and is part of a timeline I haven't landed in yet." Indeed, it handles that in Summerset's MQ when one specific NPC says something like, "ah, time moves differently in Oblivion. What happened in Coldharbour is something you have yet to experience." That said, for a new player that level of knowledge about the Psijic Order and metaphysics isn't really optimal.

    Ah, interesting. I mean it makes sense I guess but, eh I'm really attatched to my continuity :P Wouldn't be able to just shrug it off personally even if it fit (unless there are Dragon Breaks...they fix everything).

    I wanted to end by asking whether you've played Morrowind as a starting player, and if you think the lack of density in content is an issue with the DLC? .

    When I moved to PC, Morrowind was the default start for me. I was lucky because I was already very familiar with it from Xbox and so could navigate the quests and world to get the experience I wanted. With my main character I invented a reason to hop back to the mainland right off the bat. I figured the game's lore starts you off as a tourist who gets shipwrecked and enslaved - that was my excuse to say "eff to this, I'm going home" so I went straight to a navigator and booked passage off the island without ever starting the Morrowind MQ fully. Because the Naryu storyline only really starts in Balmora, by the time I returned to Vvardenfell many dozens of hours later, I felt no jarring to the continuity.

    That's what I've essentialyl done with my second character for this run, and it really does feel a lot smoother to jump into the main game first. Just pushing through the early Covenant for the first time in ages (I'm usually a Pact man, but I really wanted to play an Orc and grab Orsinium soon) and it just feels like there's a massive difference in how the game handles you starting off. 

    I have also played the DLC as a new character just to experience Vvardenfell. I don't think I felt any lack of density. The issues you mention about resource nodes wasn't a problem by then as my craft bag was already stocked so there was no need for me to have to forage, while the harder creatures like River Trolls or Hive Golems could be easily fought by allocating my Champion Points or just long familiarity with the game's mechanics.

    That's where it seems like I'm having a tough time. I'm honestly a tad baffled at the fact that I didn't have any Iron (since my last character that I played with was a Level 32 HA Dragonknight so...you'd think she had some stored up) but I guess I sold it or something...which is weird because I love hoarding, might not collect stuff my character doesn't use (even though I really should) but I think I'd have plenty of metal stored up. Anyway, yeah I guess that would make sense, for me the more challenging fights were actually just fighting three enemies at once, I swear that you don't have to do that at all except for a few Wolves in the main game but...eh it's just strange. 

    However, I did find it better to stick to the narrative until after meeting Vivec for the first time. Only when he asked me to be his eyes and ears did I feel like the game let go of my hand and give me tacit approval to go off and do my own thing. So that's how I play it now, I stick very closely to the MQ until I feel that moment occur.

    Yeah, that makes sense. I did more or less the same thing (and it is genuinelly interesting to talk to Vivec and...grumpy, can't remember his name but the grumpy fella) and it does feel like it gives you more reason to go out and explore than anything in the main game did at this point. Which is nice, especially since you can also run into a quest delivering mushrooms to ole Fyr, which adds yet another possible location that still makes sense (the Dwemer Scientist fella lives up there too). It's a DLC that really lets you explore the world easily. 

    Secondly, do you think it's an issue? I think a fair argument could probably be made that it's great to just be able to jump right into it even if the game is a lot slower early on.

    I do think it's an issue. I have a very big issue with a lot of the knowledge that isn't imparted to new players and there is a huge gulf that needs to be addressed between a new player and a player who freshly hits CP levels and wants to progress to harder content. The game does an okay job at orientating us with the Skill Advisor and level up system now, but still fails to tell us why it recommends certain skills. For instance, your character is a Warden magicka damage-dealer so you choose the Beast Caller build to follow. The skill advisor encourages you to take the Blue Betty morph of the Betty Netch skill, but doesn't tell you why. You can maybe intuit it by reading the description because it's a good skill, but what you might not know is that you really, really want to have this skill on your bar forever after and to keep it active at all times because it's going to give you Major Sorcery and restore your Magicka...

    Wait...you can shoose what build to follow? Where's that option? Urgh, I mean I'm just making my own character regardless, but I must have completely missed it as an option. The skill advisor does feel like it'd be pretty useful for new members, and I guess that there's probably a limit to how much information they want to shove at you. Plus I think it's a bit harder in the early-game to really impart most of the information for new players. I mean, personally I've put myself into a bit of a pickle because I should've gone Stamina-Warden but I'm picking Magicka options more often, but also using Dual-Wielding fairly often so I'm digging into my Magicka and Stamina most battles. It isn't a huge issue now, but I imagine that once I start approaching level 50 the fact that I'll need both stats is going to start costing me a bit. 

    And that's the rub - as you level you need to change skills and explore all options, so you might take it off your bar in order to enjoy other skills. Totally fine, you're playing solo content and can do as you please. But later (or even during solo play) when you want to do harder content and start wondering if you are doing enough damage to carry your weight in a group, or maybe even question why that River Troll is still a challenge, well that stuff is entirely outsourced to the community. I mean it's all there online and you can join guilds and get help to increase your damage, but this is an RPG too. RPG players are notoriously introspective. It potentially places the player in a situation they don't want to be in.

    I mean, I think it's easy (sort of) for me to forget that ESO is an MMO, I mean half of that is the fact that I enjoy playing Solo but the other half is just that an MMO is almost structured for you to optomize your build to get the most out of the game. It doesn't have to be perfect, but there's a certain level of optomization that you just don't need in Skyrim (for example). 

    All that said, I really do like the open-world nature of One Tamriel or Tamriel Unlimited (whatever it is they termed the non-linearity when that opened up). My advice to new players would be to relax, don't stress, play for a bit and don't think long-term just like you would in Skyrim. Embrace the idea that you'll want to change character and start again when your knowledge is greater. Until then, take it easy and have fun.

    For those that went into Morrowind directly from an older character (who had been through chunks of the main game) did you ever have an issue with the DLC or did it progress rather smoothly?

    Smooth as baby's buttocks if you play through the MQ first. Normally dlc is handled via a letter or pamphlet, so you just need to know how to get that letter. Normally this means going to Collections - Stories and Chapters in your menu screen, unlocking that option, and immediatley receiving the letter. Sometimes Events are handled via the Crown Store and needs to be purchased (for free) before you can unlock a quest event.

    In terms of story, though, it's pretty seamless and you get additional dialogue options if you bump into characters you've met in the base game. Naryu will remember you and some flirty dialogue opens up, for example. The game really does feel better if you play through it in chronologicalorder.

    Flirty dialogue? Well as a long-time Bioware gamer I must say that it's the only reason I play RPG's :P But that is actually really good to know, I thought I remember Naryu from the base game (does she show up in that plague questline in one of the Pact areas?) but I'm honestly still a but jumbled and can't trust my memory. 

  • Member
    February 18

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    Urgh, as I said with Goldie it seems like that's really going to get complicated as you go along. I just had a realization but it seems like Elsweyr (which I'm probably going to spell wrong everytime I type it) is going to throw another angle into this if Abnur Tharn really is part of it like the trailer suggest. I'm a bit rusty on the Main Quest but I just...don't know how that's going to work. 

     

    Bah, anyway. Yeah, and really I think there might not be a great choice. The last thing we want is for the game to try and force you down a particular path like it did (to an extent) in the old days, there's a reason ESO was struggling for a bit before One Tamriel/Tamriel Unlimited. 

     

     

     

     

    Man, Elsweyr is going to be exciting! Part of that is because of the Tharn thing: Is this story taking place after he ran off with the AOK at the end of the Coldharbour story? If so, will a new player get new dialogue when they meet him in Coldharbour after, or will he act like he doesn't know you? An experienced player could navigate around that but a new player might find it a huge upset later. I'm all pro-choice all the time, and Unlimited is far, far better than being rail-roaded... But what is missing is informed choice, you know? I think the idea behind the starting dlc zones is that the player learns as they play and that first playthrough becomes like a prototype, a learning curve so that when they make their proper character in the future they know what to avoid. But hell, for a player that is a lot of potentially wasted hours that could be avoided.

     

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    Ah, interesting. I mean it makes sense I guess but, eh I'm really attatched to my continuity :P Wouldn't be able to just shrug it off personally even if it fit (unless there are Dragon Breaks...they fix everything).


    I suppose I use "continuity" too much. It's the only word I can think of that ties in both story and progression :D "Roadmapping" or "Signposting" might be better terms. As in. it's not just story which gets effected. Like, I mentioned my main effing off from Vvardenfell straight off but the issue there is that the boat may well take you to Grahtwood (or alliance capital). If you're an AD character fresh out of Vvardenhfell, Grahtwood is not where you need to be. So you take another boat to Auridon to meet the masked figure and start the game in chronological order... Sometimes I'm like, "why send me to Grahtwood in the first place?" Efficiency needs to be addressed there so that the player knows where to go to do A, B or C and make informed decisions. Sure you can quest in Grahtwood and have a fun time, but it could lead to confusion because it's not designed to be played first. So in Morrowind's case, it would be so simple for a signpost to appear which tells you "if you want to start your character's Faction quest, take this boat to Auridon." Aaaand that's the other thing: In character creation you had to choose an Alliance. At what point in Vvardenfell is that relevant? Never is the answer. There is no orientation for a new player as to why it even matters.

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    That's what I've essentialyl done with my second character for this run, and it really does feel a lot smoother to jump into the main game first. Just pushing through the early Covenant for the first time in ages (I'm usually a Pact man, but I really wanted to play an Orc and grab Orsinium soon) and it just feels like there's a massive difference in how the game handles you starting off. 

    Cool! I actually think mixing in Orsinium at this point is a good thing to do. For one it'll stop Stuga from harassing you for the rest of eternity and it'll mix in newer content to stop the sort of grindy feel the base game starting areas have. As you mention, there is a difference in quality between what was released five years ago and what has come out since, and as Orsinium isn't a major part of the Daedric Triad story the next few chapters deal with, it's a good thing to have running concurrently if you need a change of pace and scenery from Daggerfall and Glenumbra. Plus, you're an Orc so you can go become a chief and fall in love with Miss Sharp-Arrow :D

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    That's where it seems like I'm having a tough time. I'm honestly a tad baffled at the fact that I didn't have any Iron (since my last character that I played with was a Level 32 HA Dragonknight so...you'd think she had some stored up) but I guess I sold it or something...which is weird because I love hoarding, might not collect stuff my character doesn't use (even though I really should) but I think I'd have plenty of metal stored up. Anyway, yeah I guess that would make sense, for me the more challenging fights were actually just fighting three enemies at once, I swear that you don't have to do that at all except for a few Wolves in the main game but...eh it's just strange. 

    Never having enough mats is a sad truth of ESO :D I think the next update addresses this a bit. Once you turn in daily crafting writs, you get materials back plus a few for your next teir. Hopefully by the time you get to the next tier there won't be as much of a slog to go harvest them. that's where guilds and traders come in handy, for just having someone to help out with basic supplies can make the game far more enjoyable. It's always recommended that crafting is started early if it's something you want to do, so it is interesting that a new player would find an issue with resource nodes in Vvardenfell. I'd say that needs addressing - there are too many hoops to jump through, being able to craft a sword shouldn't be one. Maybe having NPC merchants who sell ores up to a certain leve in addition to style mats would fix?

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    Yeah, that makes sense. I did more or less the same thing (and it is genuinelly interesting to talk to Vivec and...grumpy, can't remember his name but the grumpy fella) and it does feel like it gives you more reason to go out and explore than anything in the main game did at this point. Which is nice, especially since you can also run into a quest delivering mushrooms to ole Fyr, which adds yet another possible location that still makes sense (the Dwemer Scientist fella lives up there too). It's a DLC that really lets you explore the world easily. 

    Archcanon Tarvus. Get used to his voice, that dude is now everyone :D Absolutely, taking the mushroms to Sadrith Mora starts a wonderful questline and access to breathtaking visuals, a great example of the game letting go of your hand and encouraging you to explore. I think that's the main issue because there are two conflicting game designs operating: The older base game which was designed to be linear, and the newer content designed to be more like a traditional TES experience. Somehow the two don't gel that well together except for the AD questline (imo) which has the strongest storyline to underpin it and mixes up different locales in fairly short order. My biggest turn-off when playing through EP or DC zones is the similarity. Stonefalls and Deshaan may as well be one zone, Glenumbra nd Stormhaven may as well be one zone, whereas Grahtwood is different to Auridon, which was different to Khenarthi's Roost.  That's probably why my EP char did Wrothgar and Deshaan concurrently.

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    Wait...you can shoose what build to follow? Where's that option? Urgh, I mean I'm just making my own character regardless, but I must have completely missed it as an option. The skill advisor does feel like it'd be pretty useful for new members, and I guess that there's probably a limit to how much information they want to shove at you. Plus I think it's a bit harder in the early-game to really impart most of the information for new players. I mean, personally I've put myself into a bit of a pickle because I should've gone Stamina-Warden but I'm picking Magicka options more often, but also using Dual-Wielding fairly often so I'm digging into my Magicka and Stamina most battles. It isn't a huge issue now, but I imagine that once I start approaching level 50 the fact that I'll need both stats is going to start costing me a bit. 

    Yeah, it's really well hidden and can go unspottted. I think if you look at your Skills menu, there should be an option on the bottm right. here's what it looks likewith my Xbox overlay:

    As for your skills, relax and have fun mate. Worry about level 50 at level 50. You'll get given a free respec scroll to redo all your skills with, and by then know more about what content you want to be doing :) For now, I think no stressing about it will lead to more fun, and fun needs to be the bottom line.

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    I mean, I think it's easy (sort of) for me to forget that ESO is an MMO, I mean half of that is the fact that I enjoy playing Solo but the other half is just that an MMO is almost structured for you to optomize your build to get the most out of the game. It doesn't have to be perfect, but there's a certain level of optomization that you just don't need in Skyrim (for example). 

    That's a good point. It is an MMO... But also an MMO hugely balanced in favour of the solo player. In terms of content percentage (I don't know the exact numbers) but one zone will likely have a Public Dungeon designed for a solo or group play (group recommended), two four-person Dungeons designed for a group, possibly a trial designed for twelve people, six World Bosses for solo or group play (group recommended).... and six Delves for solo play, and about fifty quests for solo play. My point is, you can play most of the content in the game as a solo player. To take on world bosses and public dungeons solo, you do need a degree of optimisation, but for delves and quests optimising isn't essential. But it's those other things you can't do which will work their way under your skin and the game doesn't answer the questions you may have about how to be better at them. 

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    Flirty dialogue? Well as a long-time Bioware gamer I must say that it's the only reason I play RPG's :P But that is actually really good to know, I thought I remember Naryu from the base game (does she show up in that plague questline in one of the Pact areas?) but I'm honestly still a but jumbled and can't trust my memory. 

    Haha, I hear that! Yeah you get to flirt with her in Deshaan for the plague quests and let her tease you about taking a bath together in the future, and Morrowind dlc adds to that running dialogue a bit. It's nothing major but is a nod to your past expereinces together if you do EP quests first, and gives youa feeling that she remembers you. Let's face, being remembered by Naryu is enough to make your day, right?

  • Member
    February 18

    Dragonborn2021 said:

    I mean, personally I've put myself into a bit of a pickle because I should've gone Stamina-Warden but I'm picking Magicka options more often, but also using Dual-Wielding fairly often so I'm digging into my Magicka and Stamina most battles. It isn't a huge issue now, but I imagine that once I start approaching level 50 the fact that I'll need both stats is going to start costing me a bit. 

    Don't worry, what your experiencing with the morphs is the natural outcome of most classes only having around 3 stamina morphs. Nightblades have the most with a total of 6. So even if you tried your hardest you'd always end up picking more magicka abilities then stamina :D

     

  • February 19

    Man, Elsweyr is going to be exciting! Part of that is because of the Tharn thing: Is this story taking place after he ran off with the AOK at the end of the Coldharbour story? If so, will a new player get new dialogue when they meet him in Coldharbour after, or will he act like he doesn't know you? An experienced player could navigate around that but a new player might find it a huge upset later. I'm all pro-choice all the time, and Unlimited is far, far better than being rail-roaded... But what is missing is informed choice, you know? I think the idea behind the starting dlc zones is that the player learns as they play and that first playthrough becomes like a prototype, a learning curve so that when they make their proper character in the future they know what to avoid. But hell, for a player that is a lot of potentially wasted hours that could be avoided.

    Yeah I'm super excited for it, even better because it also means I get Summerset. Shame it doesn't give me any crowns or other DLC so I have no desire to get the Special Edition but the chapter itself is already incredibly fascinating to me. I'm personally a tad more interested in the Dragons and how they're going to come into things (Well, that and the Necromancer class and how it actually has negative consequences if you use it in public. I'm so incredibly excited for it :D). 

    I do get what you mean, I think it's harder because there's just so much you need to figure out pretty quickly with the game. It's not terrible but it can really be a bit much at times early on. It gets a hell of a lot better once you get your footing but...it can be hard to actually get your footing if your new (or you've been gone for so long that they've already implemented a dozen new things since you last played).  

    I suppose I use "continuity" too much. It's the only word I can think of that ties in both story and progression :D "Roadmapping" or "Signposting" might be better terms. As in. it's not just story which gets effected. Like, I mentioned my main effing off from Vvardenfell straight off but the issue there is that the boat may well take you to Grahtwood (or alliance capital). If you're an AD character fresh out of Vvardenhfell, Grahtwood is not where you need to be. So you take another boat to Auridon to meet the masked figure and start the game in chronological order... Sometimes I'm like, "why send me to Grahtwood in the first place?" Efficiency needs to be addressed there so that the player knows where to go to do A, B or C and make informed decisions. Sure you can quest in Grahtwood and have a fun time, but it could lead to confusion because it's not designed to be played first. So in Morrowind's case, it would be so simple for a signpost to appear which tells you "if you want to start your character's Faction quest, take this boat to Auridon." Aaaand that's the other thing: In character creation you had to choose an Alliance. At what point in Vvardenfell is that relevant? Never is the answer. There is no orientation for a new player as to why it even matters.

     To be fair you can just Portal away, but that's confusing because the map's sorta weird...like it makes sense that it's how they structured it but it's entirely possible that you don't realize you can move your map away from Vvardenfell. I also think it's weird that you can (seemingly) travel to any of the Alliance starting points no matter what alliance you picked. I don't mind the idea of free travel, but I do think that Bleackrock/Stros M'kai and...the AD place should be unique (maybe not forever but for starting at). Just makes more sense.

    But yeah, I can't imagine going by boat, but that makes logical sense because your Vvardenfell character really shouldn't be able to use Wayshrines as far as I can tell...I'm fairly certain that they're supposed to be linked to the whole Vestige thing but I'm hardly an ESO Lore Expert

    Cool! I actually think mixing in Orsinium at this point is a good thing to do. For one it'll stop Stuga from harassing you for the rest of eternity and it'll mix in newer content to stop the sort of grindy feel the base game starting areas have. As you mention, there is a difference in quality between what was released five years ago and what has come out since, and as Orsinium isn't a major part of the Daedric Triad story the next few chapters deal with, it's a good thing to have running concurrently if you need a change of pace and scenery from Daggerfall and Glenumbra. Plus, you're an Orc so you can go become a chief and fall in love with Miss Sharp-Arrow :D

    Eh, I don't have Orsinium. I'm sort of debating between buying it or Clockwork City because I'm a huge Dunmer nerd and the chance to meet Sotha Sil is literally worth real money to me :P I mean I can save up and buy a new chapter once a month or so, but I'm planning on hitting Level 20 or so before buying one just so I can make sure that I'm hooked on the game for a few months...or longer. I am definitely interested in buying most of the...are they DLC? I can't keep up with the terminology here, but I'm planning on buying most of them that aren't (mostly) just dungeons. There are a couple of them right? That don't add much story to the game?

    Never having enough mats is a sad truth of ESO :D I think the next update addresses this a bit. Once you turn in daily crafting writs, you get materials back plus a few for your next teir. Hopefully by the time you get to the next tier there won't be as much of a slog to go harvest them. that's where guilds and traders come in handy, for just having someone to help out with basic supplies can make the game far more enjoyable. It's always recommended that crafting is started early if it's something you want to do, so it is interesting that a new player would find an issue with resource nodes in Vvardenfell. I'd say that needs addressing - there are too many hoops to jump through, being able to craft a sword shouldn't be one. Maybe having NPC merchants who sell ores up to a certain leve in addition to style mats would fix?

    Urgh, I mean it does turn out that I've got 200 odd Steel Ingots so it looks like I'll mostly be alright, plus with my Warden he's doing perfectly fine finding those materials (Have you noticed the Level 3 grinders? They usually stick in one place completely naked just mining ore and it's utterly hilarious to me. They're really common in Stros M'kai but I've seen a few in Glenumbra too). I think it's just the smaller zones meaning you get a higher density too the material deposits. Also, am I wrong or have they reduced how many materials you get from each harvest. I could've sworn you used to get more from Iron/Maple/Jute and less from Runestones. 

    Anyway, I'll be interested in seeing those changes. I have noticed that crafting writs are helping out a bit now that I've started them (well, the one) and they seem to have been buffed a bit from the old days. The inspiration gain is really nice at lower levels. But yeah I think, okay I can really understand why they don't want to give you infinite ore for sale, but I do think they could have a Special Merchant that sells you 50-100 a day, if they do they might have to reduce how many ingots you get from each ore but having them for sale would be useful as hell. 

    Archcanon Tarvus. Get used to his voice, that dude is now everyone :D Absolutely, taking the mushroms to Sadrith Mora starts a wonderful questline and access to breathtaking visuals, a great example of the game letting go of your hand and encouraging you to explore. I think that's the main issue because there are two conflicting game designs operating: The older base game which was designed to be linear, and the newer content designed to be more like a traditional TES experience. Somehow the two don't gel that well together except for the AD questline (imo) which has the strongest storyline to underpin it and mixes up different locales in fairly short order. My biggest turn-off when playing through EP or DC zones is the similarity. Stonefalls and Deshaan may as well be one zone, Glenumbra nd Stormhaven may as well be one zone, whereas Grahtwood is different to Auridon, which was different to Khenarthi's Roost.  That's probably why my EP char did Wrothgar and Deshaan concurrently.

    I have to be honest...the Telvanni Towers there dissapointed the hell out of me. I don't know why but they just looked a bit...off from the outside. Anyway, it's definitely my go-to way to go now because I get a bit turned around in Balmora. I might just be so used to the TES:3 version that it puts me off but I have no idea what the city is for some strange reason. Morrowind is definitely more interesting for me in a general sense, and I think the characters are insanely good (though I am noticing that there's a huge jump between the older and newer characters. Even the new ones in major cities are more interesting). Plus you know, Vivec :P

    I really have to run an AD character fully, I don't know what it is but I just hate Khenarthi's Roost for some reason, I don't really like Stros M'kai either but I absolutely love Bleackrock and Stonefalls. Plus, you know, Almalexia...enough said, I'm a sad, sad, Tribunal loving man.

    Yeah, it's really well hidden and can go unspottted. I think if you look at your Skills menu, there should be an option on the bottm right. here's what it looks likewith my Xbox overlay:

    Thanks man, found it pretty quick once I actually started looking for it and quickly decided to turn it off. I don't need to be told that my build is weird by the game when I know it myself :P

    As for your skills, relax and have fun mate. Worry about level 50 at level 50. You'll get given a free respec scroll to redo all your skills with, and by then know more about what content you want to be doing :) For now, I think no stressing about it will lead to more fun, and fun needs to be the bottom line.

    Oh thank hell. I am having a tonne of fun just messing around with things at this point. Just hit Level 15 earlier today...or yesterday, either way and I decided to go with Destruction Staves as my back-up just to add a further twist to combat. Haven't started it enough to really get it going, but it's fun to just hang back and play differently from time to time. 

    I've really enjoyed the combination of Flying Cliff Racer (Opening), Blade Cloak and Flurry. Oh can't forget...well I think both Sleet Storm and Feral Guardian work with it so I'm testing the two. I feel like every Warden I see runs Bear so I might ditch him just to stand out a bit. I am a little bit bummed that Winter's Embrace isn't a tad more interesting. I mean, I really feel like Arctic Wind and Frost Cloak need to have at least a small damage pool (500 health max or something). I get that they try and give each tree completely distinct feels (with Wardens getting one for each role) but I just think they could crossover a bit more with the Warden. I mean the Dragonknights get a bit of damage in all three trees along with debuffs and buffs. I mean, really it just feels like you could use Morphs to really change skills in the Warden tree.

    That's a good point. It is an MMO... But also an MMO hugely balanced in favour of the solo player. In terms of content percentage (I don't know the exact numbers) but one zone will likely have a Public Dungeon designed for a solo or group play (group recommended), two four-person Dungeons designed for a group, possibly a trial designed for twelve people, six World Bosses for solo or group play (group recommended).... and six Delves for solo play, and about fifty quests for solo play. My point is, you can play most of the content in the game as a solo player. To take on world bosses and public dungeons solo, you do need a degree of optimisation, but for delves and quests optimising isn't essential. But it's those other things you can't do which will work their way under your skin and the game doesn't answer the questions you may have about how to be better at them. 

    Yeah it's a really strange MMO, but I think it's also just how the best ones are designed these days. Shove it full of solo gameplay and throw in a few Raids or Strikes or whatever for those who enjoy teaming up, and...well yeah. It's a system that works and gets poor guys like me with no social life (and a PS4 instead of a PC :P) into the game even if they're not huge MMO players. I've found that so far I haven't needed to bother with really optomizing my character, he hits just fine and tanks like a champ, but I'm also mostly fighting Bandits and Wolves so...

    Haha, I hear that! Yeah you get to flirt with her in Deshaan for the plague quests and let her tease you about taking a bath together in the future, and Morrowind dlc adds to that running dialogue a bit. It's nothing major but is a nod to your past expereinces together if you do EP quests first, and gives youa feeling that she remembers you. Let's face, being remembered by Naryu is enough to make your day, right?

    As they say, nothing goes together like plagues and bathing :P Well, I mean if you think about it that's actually true, just not in the best way. Hah, but that's true, honestly I feel like any character that gets a wider story beat is awesome but Naryu is...well Naryu. But alright, you've definitely cemented the feeling that I have to do the EP quests before Morrowind just for extra dialogue, I really am a sucker for extra dialogue even if it's just for killing chickens or something equally stupid. 

  • February 19

    Don't worry, what your experiencing with the morphs is the natural outcome of most classes only having around 3 stamina morphs. Nightblades have the most with a total of 6. So even if you tried your hardest you'd always end up picking more magicka abilities then stamina :D

    Eh, thanks man. I figured it probably wasn't that big of a deal and I've more or less become fine with it because it kind of just works for me to drain each stat a bit in combat rather than purely using one for most of my damage. It probably doesn't hurt that I've grown far too fond of Flurry from Dual-Wield and use it about a thousand times per battle :P