Roleplaying » Discussions


How to deal with enchanting Roleplay-wise?

  • Member
    January 15, 2014

    I made a character once who exclusively soul trapped necromancers as a method of retribution for their soul-trapping of innocents. If you wanted to go for the hard-line justice angle you could do that.

  • July 9, 2018

    There is also the option to not use enchantment. My current character's backstory had him start to study at the Arcane University, read up on the Soul Cairn, and basically quit in disgust; this gives him a very fun handicap and an excuse to know a bit about magic (some Novice and Apprentice spells, the ability to recognize magical effects like rune traps and enchantments and such) while also giving him a distrust towards mages in general; this all basically means my character is SEVERELY underpowered, but also has some very unique motivations that I really like.

  • Member
    July 10, 2018

    tirrene said:

    There is also the option to not use enchantment. My current character's backstory had him start to study at the Arcane University, read up on the Soul Cairn, and basically quit in disgust; this gives him a very fun handicap and an excuse to know a bit about magic (some Novice and Apprentice spells, the ability to recognize magical effects like rune traps and enchantments and such) while also giving him a distrust towards mages in general; this all basically means my character is SEVERELY underpowered, but also has some very unique motivations that I really like.

    What's your character's opinion on others using enchantments? For example, if their follower was weilding an enchanted mace, would they insist that they change weapon, or is it just restricted to themselves? Basically, how far is there anti-enchantment conviction?

  • July 10, 2018

    Zonnonn said:

    tirrene said:

    There is also the option to not use enchantment. My current character's backstory had him start to study at the Arcane University, read up on the Soul Cairn, and basically quit in disgust; this gives him a very fun handicap and an excuse to know a bit about magic (some Novice and Apprentice spells, the ability to recognize magical effects like rune traps and enchantments and such) while also giving him a distrust towards mages in general; this all basically means my character is SEVERELY underpowered, but also has some very unique motivations that I really like.

    What's your character's opinion on others using enchantments? For example, if their follower was weilding an enchanted mace, would they insist that they change weapon, or is it just restricted to themselves? Basically, how far is there anti-enchantment conviction?

    If he has the chance to talk his friends out of using them he will (although the build itself doesn't lend to having followers, since it's more of a sneaky character). He won't outright assault anyone who uses enchantments, but he will not trust people who do.

  • July 10, 2018

    I tend to take a little bit of the lore on soul trapping and sort of bend it a little when I play a good character who wants to enchant. And I don’t memorize the lore word for word, so some of mine might be wrong. But that’s ok, from my perspective. I mean, even in our world, we think we know things. And sometimes we’re right, and sometimes even the smartest and brightest of us get it wrong. So I think it’s ok to have different characters think different things. 

     

    So, my latest character (who I don’t get to play again until late August! I’m dying.) believes that souls, white and black, are split into two components - life force and consciousness. And when they’re trapped in soul gems, only the life force is trapped, and the consciousness goes where it’s supposed to go depending on who the person/animal is. Sovngarde, dreamsleeve, rabbit heaven, etc. And as to what happens with the Soul Cairn, the only souls trapped there are those where the trapper made a deal with the Ideal Masters in exchange for the soul. So as long as she doesn’t do this, she doesn’t inhibit the soul going where it needs to go by soul trapping, and doesn’t consign the being to some miserable existence in the Soul Cairn. 

     

    I’ve also read that only black souls go to the Soul Cairn anyway, so there’s less of a concern with white souls. And I also think my character, someone who’d kill animals for food and clothing, I think she’d believe that animals didn’t have the same sort of consciousness anyway. 

     

    There’s also this: you can soul trap a dead body and then raise that body from the dead. And when that body dies, it says “thank you.” Sometimes, at least. I did this a few times a couple of weeks ago to cement my character’s theory and philosophy. My character believes that this is the consciousness coming back into the body. The mage provides the life force, but when the character speaks, that’s its own consciousness coming back, temporarily. Which to her, means it’s neither in the Soul Cairn or trapped in the soul gem itself. On Necromancy says necromancers shouldn’t raise recently dead bodies, but ones who’ve been dead for a while. So, my character’s hypothesis on this is that the reanimation spell “catches” another soul/consciousness on its way to wherever it was supposed to go, and traps it in that body as part of the reanimating process. 

     

    So, she’s anti-necromancy, because she doesn’t want to trap any soul in a dead body. From the way the bodies say “thank you,” she doesn’t think it’s a great experience. But enchanting using white or black souls is ok with her. Again, I know the lore says different, but she’s using her experiences and thoughts on the matter instead of going with straight lore. 

  • Member
    July 14, 2018

    ilanisilver said:

    I tend to take a little bit of the lore on soul trapping and sort of bend it a little when I play a good character who wants to enchant. And I don’t memorize the lore word for word, so some of mine might be wrong. But that’s ok, from my perspective. I mean, even in our world, we think we know things. And sometimes we’re right, and sometimes even the smartest and brightest of us get it wrong. So I think it’s ok to have different characters think different things.

    Loved this, Ilani! As much as I like to stick to lore, a big part of roleplaying (honestly one of the most important parts) is reinterpreting it. It can be, as you said, showing a different interpretation of an 'established' practice - which makes complete sense, not everyone agrees on facts even today. Or even just forgetting lore and changing it to fit your character, as your character is obviously the priority while creating one.

    I also really liked your interpetation of souls. The whole soul trapping thing in ES just seems too... black and white (appropriate :P), for a series known for being as little sense as possible. 'Yeah you soul trapped a dude, now they're condemned to torment from some next Ideal Masters bloke in a realm no one understands, deal with it' just doesn't work for me. There needs to be compromise, ying-yang, cause for some justification for its use. I think your system does that perfectly.

  • July 14, 2018
    Yes! I mean, we have all these books and articles. We have the Imperial Library at Google’s beck and call. The characters don’t. They don’t have access to every book, and certainly not a compendium of any kind. So they go off their own experiences, what they’ve been told, what they feel. I read so much about soul gems and the Soul Cairn and the Ideal Masters, and there are so many different interpretations and contingencies there. And you’re right, it just seems like such a cop out of an answer to be like “yeah, that’s just how it is.” I mean back in Oblivion, the Mages’ Guild was so anti-necromancy, but was really blasé about enchantment as long as normal soul gems were used. Which, if the whole “condemned to torment in the Soul Cairn” thing is true all the time? I just think you’re right, there’s got to be more to the story.
  • Member
    July 15, 2018

    ilanisilver said: Yes! I mean, we have all these books and articles. We have the Imperial Library at Google’s beck and call. The characters don’t. They don’t have access to every book, and certainly not a compendium of any kind. So they go off their own experiences, what they’ve been told, what they feel. I read so much about soul gems and the Soul Cairn and the Ideal Masters, and there are so many different interpretations and contingencies there. And you’re right, it just seems like such a cop out of an answer to be like “yeah, that’s just how it is.” I mean back in Oblivion, the Mages’ Guild was so anti-necromancy, but was really blasé about enchantment as long as normal soul gems were used. Which, if the whole “condemned to torment in the Soul Cairn” thing is true all the time? I just think you’re right, there’s got to be more to the story.

    Another really interesting point there which I've never really been seen in RP - ignorance. Maybe it's because the most controversial things in ES are assocaited with magic, and most magical characters are shown to be intelligent and well read, but I can't think of a character I've seen that does bad stuff simply because they don't understand the ramifications, willfully or not. I once played a character who was basically a mercenary that specialised in filling soul gems. He had the typical cut throat attitude that mercenaries tend to have - he didn't give a shit about the souls he was collecting. But for a simple newbie to the merc game being told to fill some gems doesn't seem wrong. Its an interesting concept, even accomplished mages might not be aware of the results of their actions, maybe they missed that lesson that said that messing with black souls was a no-no.

  • August 21, 2018

    ilanisilver said: Yes! I mean, we have all these books and articles. We have the Imperial Library at Google’s beck and call.

    Good point! Haven't consciensly applied that.
    At most a "character doesn't know that... yet" but what if they can never know?

    As for the topic, using white soul gems appears to be 'fine' in the lore.
    Serana has dialogue when first entering the soul cairn, but confesses to not know for sure.
    Black soul gems are what condems a soul to the soul cairn. (Some novice necromancer really wasted that black soul gem on the cow you can find in the cairn)

    Interferance from powerful (d)aedric entities could perhaps, maybe, possibly change a soul's faith.

  • Member
    August 21, 2018

    The beauty of being a PC player, is that there's always a way to do what you want in a good way: behold Soulfire.

    In case you can't see the link or use it, it basically allows you to slowly charge weapons with your own Magicka reserves.

    Also:

    Brandon said:

    As for the topic, using white soul gems appears to be 'fine' in the lore.
    Serana has dialogue when first entering the soul cairn, but confesses to not know for sure.
    Black soul gems are what condems a soul to the soul cairn. (Some novice necromancer really wasted that black soul gem on the cow you can find in the cairn)

    This is incorrect. Black soul gems are unable to hold white souls of any kind. It's not that they're a waste to use on white souls (though it would be, were it possible), they actually can't hold them, just as a white gem cannot bear a black soul.