Skyrim Tips and Tricks » Discussions

An Argument for 'Drain Vitality'

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• James

  

  Member
   

  May 23, 2014

  As far as I know there's no way to formally lower the maximum health using Ravage poisons.  You can reset the 10 second timer by applying more poison but if left alone it will always return back to it's original value.

  Keep in mind, also, that we're lowering the 'Maximum Health' value rather than the active health value that floats.  Say you hit something that has 500 health with a ravage poison for 30 damage, after the 10 second timer elapses the maximum value will return back to 500 but if you've kept doing damage (aside from the special ravage effect) you may never notice the maximum health reurning back to normal since it's current 'floating' health value is below it's maximum.

  An NPC has two health numbers, an active value and a BASE value.  You will probably be familiar with this when it's written like a fraction:

  500/500 hp

  The 'Ravage' and 'Fortify' effects affect the second number while all other damage and restore effects affect the first.  The first number can never be higher than the second as it's a hard cap so if we hit something with a ravage health (30 damage) their new health will be:

  470/470 hp

  After 10 seconds the hardcap will return to it's original value of 500 and if no other damage has occured then both numbers will return back to their original value.  If we continue to deal basic damage then it would look something like:

  470/470 hp

  460/470 hp

  450/470 hp

  And after the 10 second timer expires and the hardcap returns to it's original value it would be:

  450/500 hp

  If one is so inclined, you can continuously hit an NPC with ravage poisons and their health hardcap will go down each time but if the timer expires it will return to it's original value.

  As far as I know there's no way to formally lower the maximum health using Ravage poisons.  You can reset the 10 second timer by applying more poison but if left alone it will always return back to it's original value.

  Keep in mind, also, that we're lowering the 'Maximum Health' value rather than the active health value that floats.  Say you hit something that has 500 health with a ravage poison for 30 damage, after the 10 second timer elapses the maximum value will return back to 500 but if you've kept doing damage (aside from the special ravage effect) you may never notice the maximum health reurning back to normal since it's current 'floating' health value is below it's maximum.

  An NPC has two health numbers, an active value and a BASE value.  You will probably be familiar with this when it's written like a fraction:

  500/500 hp

  The 'Ravage' and 'Fortify' effects affect the second number while all other damage and restore effects affect the first.  The first number can never be higher than the second as it's a hard cap so if we hit something with a ravage health (30 damage) their new health will be:

  470/470 hp

  After 10 seconds the hardcap will return to it's original value of 500 and if no other damage has occured then both numbers will return back to their original value.  If we continue to deal basic damage then it would look something like:

  470/470 hp

  460/470 hp

  450/470 hp

  And after the 10 second timer expires and the hardcap returns to it's original value it would be:

  450/500 hp

  If one is so inclined, you can continuously hit an NPC with ravage poisons and their health hardcap will go down each time but if the timer expires it will return to it's original value.

• Vazgen

  

  Member
   

  May 23, 2014

  Ah, OK, the damage of the bow is also there so it's not pure poison damage  I wanted to permanently lower enemy health to deal with them later but I guess Bethesda figured that one out (missing out a ton of other things in the process lol)  

  A while ago I was testing out dragon fights with poisons and had this Damage Health + Ravage Health + Weakness to Poison concoction. I noticed the health increasing during combat and I was applying poisons quite fast, definitely faster than 10 seconds. It was like the dragon queued Ravage Health effects and regenerated them in order of application without resetting the timer. I'm using Unofficial Patch.

  P.S. It was quite a while ago, I may remember wrong 

  Ah, OK, the damage of the bow is also there so it's not pure poison damage  I wanted to permanently lower enemy health to deal with them later but I guess Bethesda figured that one out (missing out a ton of other things in the process lol)  

  A while ago I was testing out dragon fights with poisons and had this Damage Health + Ravage Health + Weakness to Poison concoction. I noticed the health increasing during combat and I was applying poisons quite fast, definitely faster than 10 seconds. It was like the dragon queued Ravage Health effects and regenerated them in order of application without resetting the timer. I'm using Unofficial Patch.

  P.S. It was quite a while ago, I may remember wrong 

• James

  

  Member
   

  May 23, 2014

  I guess Bethesda figured that one out

  Rest assured, the perp responsible for providing this alleged Quality Assurance was promptly apprehended and shipped away to another Dev studio.  

  I guess Bethesda figured that one out

  Rest assured, the perp responsible for providing this alleged Quality Assurance was promptly apprehended and shipped away to another Dev studio.  

• James

  

  Member
   

  May 23, 2014

  It won't prevent the Ravage timer from resetting as far as I know, but as long as you're doing damage it probably doesn't matter what their max health is.

  I still believe the absolute best use for Ravage poisons is combining them with Drain Vitality to prevent the regen of Stamina/Magicka.  Those two work differently than Ravage health so I find the application to be far more useful.  Dragons are such weaklings with this combo.

  It won't prevent the Ravage timer from resetting as far as I know, but as long as you're doing damage it probably doesn't matter what their max health is.

  I still believe the absolute best use for Ravage poisons is combining them with Drain Vitality to prevent the regen of Stamina/Magicka.  Those two work differently than Ravage health so I find the application to be far more useful.  Dragons are such weaklings with this combo.

• James

  

  Member
   

  May 23, 2014

  difficulty slider affects the magnitude of all poisons, this is why poisons such as 'damage magicka regen' don't work as well as people think they do since the 100% regen is cut down to 50% (the % strength is the affected magnitude, the duration is constant).  Ravage health poisons are, I believe, also affected by the dificulty slider...although it's been a while.

  This is where something interesting happens though.  THe difficulty slider is a multiplier to health damage (both for and against) but it only deals with the health statistics and does nothing to damage upon the other attributes.  This is what originally led me to use ravage stamina/magicka poisons along with frost/shock magic in combination with Drain Vitality because no matter what difficulty you play on they do the full stamina/magicka damage.  A basic ravage stamina poison (using no enchantments) will always do 300 stamina damage whether you play on novice or legendary.

  All poisons pretty much fall under destruction (if they aren't under another magic school) since poison is treated as a type of magic for the purposes of the game engine, you can see this in action by selecting the Apprentice stone (double magic damage) and drinking a potion with a poison side effect.  We can't boost poison damage with fortify destruction potions (I've tried, oh how I've tried!) since the fortify potions modify outgoing spell damage while poison damage isn't calculated until it hits something.  Weakness to Magic doesn't work either from what I remember, but I may be wrong about that.

  One of the biggest limitations with Ravage Health (and many other) poisons is their limited magnitude.  We can boost the magnitude using enchanting but it's always going to be capped.

  Fun fact: Sparks does full magicka damage (rather than half damage) which allows you to drain the magicka of enemies quite quickly!

  difficulty slider affects the magnitude of all poisons, this is why poisons such as 'damage magicka regen' don't work as well as people think they do since the 100% regen is cut down to 50% (the % strength is the affected magnitude, the duration is constant).  Ravage health poisons are, I believe, also affected by the dificulty slider...although it's been a while.

  This is where something interesting happens though.  THe difficulty slider is a multiplier to health damage (both for and against) but it only deals with the health statistics and does nothing to damage upon the other attributes.  This is what originally led me to use ravage stamina/magicka poisons along with frost/shock magic in combination with Drain Vitality because no matter what difficulty you play on they do the full stamina/magicka damage.  A basic ravage stamina poison (using no enchantments) will always do 300 stamina damage whether you play on novice or legendary.

  All poisons pretty much fall under destruction (if they aren't under another magic school) since poison is treated as a type of magic for the purposes of the game engine, you can see this in action by selecting the Apprentice stone (double magic damage) and drinking a potion with a poison side effect.  We can't boost poison damage with fortify destruction potions (I've tried, oh how I've tried!) since the fortify potions modify outgoing spell damage while poison damage isn't calculated until it hits something.  Weakness to Magic doesn't work either from what I remember, but I may be wrong about that.

  One of the biggest limitations with Ravage Health (and many other) poisons is their limited magnitude.  We can boost the magnitude using enchanting but it's always going to be capped.

  Fun fact: Sparks does full magicka damage (rather than half damage) which allows you to drain the magicka of enemies quite quickly!

• James

  

  Member
   

  May 24, 2014

  I always felt they made a mistake with making the magnitude the affected attribute rather than the duration, the other way around you could have pushed the duration longer via enchanting. That said I've always been a huge fan of DoT's which is why I always use 'Lingering' poisons so I still find Ravage poisons to be a worthwhile tool...albeit slightly underwhelming.

  Just imagine, maxed enchanting could have made ravage poisons last for almost 25 seconds...now that would have been wonderful!

  I always felt they made a mistake with making the magnitude the affected attribute rather than the duration, the other way around you could have pushed the duration longer via enchanting. That said I've always been a huge fan of DoT's which is why I always use 'Lingering' poisons so I still find Ravage poisons to be a worthwhile tool...albeit slightly underwhelming.

  Just imagine, maxed enchanting could have made ravage poisons last for almost 25 seconds...now that would have been wonderful!