Skyrim Character Building » Discussions


Preferred Build Layout

  • September 18, 2017

    My ongoing revamp of my Curator build has brought to the forefront of my mind something I haven't considered in ages: build layout. It's always different when you're in control of your layout versus seeing someone else's, and I know fractured discussion has taken place around preferred layouts before, but I wanted to have a localized and more engaged discussion on the matter once and for all.

    Most of us are familiar with Ponty's build guide and Noodle's build template at this point; those templates set the standard for builds. But anyone who's been around for even a little has most likely seen a build that breaks the mold, if not made one themselves. 

    So my question: what determines how you structure your builds? What creative ways have you have found to structure them that deviate from the standard template? 

  • September 18, 2017

    Good question Legion.  All in all my layout hasn't really changed very much from my very first build, which was based heavily on Noodles template.  The template is great for organizing your thoughts and goes a long way to preventing rambling, wall-o-text, and scattered presentation.  I have added to it when needed for certain builds, or dropped sections as I became more experienced at building. 

    For instance, all of my old builds have a "backstory" section included in them, and I don't think they were necessary but they were part of the template so I included them.  Later builds have dropped this, unless it played a large part in the build.  A good example Pyromancer my first build which included a "In the Beginning" section which gave a brief snapshot of a backstory like the Argonian dockworker, or Dunmer fisherman.  However this section was completely dropped for the Cryomancer and Electromancer.

    Recently, like the last year, i've been toying with the perkspread.  Traditionally they are images with lists of perks pasted over them, sometimes these work well giving a nice visual representation of the skills, sometimes they don't work at all with text being unreadable due to the back groud, or the image being needlessly marred by the inclusion of text.  I always liked the clean presentation style of Paul England's builds, which never used perkspreads, instead he simply listed the perks he took.  I've adopted this "no spread" mentality so now my builds usually list the skill with a brief description of how it's used in the build then a list of the perks taken.  I've come to like this method though it's not alway the best fit.  My Grave-Worm bridges this with the perks listed in a block that was attached to an image but not super imposed over it, but my later build The Druid's of Galen uses three perkspread that are all in the traditional style.

    Guess what I'm saying is that the template is a fantastic guideline and it's great for new builders and old timers alike.  New builders should use it to organize their build into a pleasing presentation while veterans can use it as a checklist to make sure they are hitting all the major build points.  There have been times were the template has made me aware that a build was missing something.  Like special skills, not all builds will have them or need them but you may have been using a combo or something without realizing it, this has happened to me and caused me to name these combos and include them in builds as a more interesting way of conveying the playstyle of the character.  But sometimes adhereing to closely to anothers vision can cause you to add things that aren't needed like my early back story snippets, I like them but they probably aren't needed for those builds. 

     

  • September 18, 2017

    The templates are good guidelines. I highly recommend them, however, with each build, I notice I'm moving away from set templates and layouts, especially with regard to headings. I've also abandoned equipment spreads and sometimes skill icons. I still use perkspreads, but only because I've not yet had a build that didn't have an image that wasn't pretty amazing for the perkspread and I'm blind as a bat, if I can read it, pretty much all can. Backstories will often be either letters, or in the build's own words, or a piece of short narrative that sums up the build in something quick and impactful. Sometimes my mods are in the beginning sometimes the end. Sometimes I merge gameplay and roleplay when those two components cannot be seperated. I'm not a special moves user, because my button mashing is crap. 

    For me, I like strong presentation of themes and out of the box organization. 

  • September 18, 2017

    Sounds like us three at least are vaguely on the same page. I used a template for my first build but have always wanted to deviate. My biggest hurdle has been trying to reinvent the perk spread. You can see my first attempt in my fallout 4 build in the workshop, and I aim to reinvent it somehow for my curator revamp as well. It's tough, cause the standard is the standard for its usefulness. It's practical and well thought-out, and I've found it difficult to really improve it, so I've instead taken to adding cherries on top of it. I have two major goals going forward as far as build layouts are concerned: I want to reduce my wordcount and use more images to convey meaning; and I want to explain a build through a story. Both affect layout, though I'm currently unsure how significant their effects will be. 

  • Member
    September 18, 2017

    Legion said:

    I want to reduce my wordcount and use more images to convey meaning; and I want to explain a build through a story. 

    Get out of my head, man! I've been trying to do both of those for the last year or so--and have failed utterly on reducing the word count. I just get too excited about explaining builds, and it translates into an overabundance of slangy verbosity. I sincerely doubt I'll ever get past that xD

    My first three or so builds I adhered to the same basic format simply because it worked at the time and as a budding builder I was hesitant to tinker with something that mostly worked. Subconsciously, however, I think I still follow it to some extent: backstory (if I've got one), intro, basic stats, skills, combat/roleplay/gameplay (the order will vary), and suitable quests (sometimes). Occasionally I'll shift sections around to break up text, and frequently use backstory or quotes to break up sections. 

    I recently attempted a graphic novel approach for a modder's log, but was not completely satisfied with the results, and had to fall back on the standard way-too-many-words style of writing that always seems to haunt me... like this post xD

  • September 18, 2017

    I'm a very simplistic, formulaic kind of guy. Everything I do is kind of set out and designed for simplicity. I do try new things from time to time but they never really work out, so heh, just stick with the ole' faithful style I always use/recommend.

    I don't really use the templates, I mean I was building before Noodles' guide and I don't know if I've ever read Ponty's guide but more learnt from trying things out and basically thinking. What makes a build easiest to read? And just implementing everything that for me makes a build easy to read. It did happen overtime to be fair, and I've had 4 years now to kind of focus my presentation but uh...well this is the basic outline for me

    Introduction Banner

    [Picture (Centered, 900 width when possible so it takes up the entire page but not more)]

    Blah, blah, introduction text.

    Backstory Banner

    Blah, blah, blah, blah. Backstory, death, destruction, domination, etc.

    The Basics Banner

    Race:

    Gender (unless it doesn't matter):

    Stats:

    Skills:

    Standing Stone:

    Powers and Shouts (if they're important enough to include but not important enough to need their own section):

    Perk Spread

    Skills Banner

    Depends on whether I'm using a Perk Spread or not, but if I am that goes above while a detailed explanation of the skills (Or perks if it's modded) goes below.

    Gameplay Banner

    I sometimes skip this but if there are any important tips or glitches/exploits that I use, this is the section for it.

    [Picture]

    Combat Banner

    This is probably the only area that really changes much, but the Combat section would usually be laid out so that I explain how the character fights different types of enemies. I write it in different ways for each build, but the general idea is that each enemy type is covered in depth while also giving an explanation on general combat. 

    Warriors:

    Mage:

    Archers:

    Dragons

    Any other enemy types/basic rules

    [Picture]

    Roleplaying Banner

    Sometimes I skip this because some characters...well I either try and show off the character through writing or pictures rather than 'do this, do that' or I just didn't roleplay them so...can't be stuffed making stuff up.

    Quests Banner

    Quest 1 - Explanation (Sometimes a level)

    Quest 2 - Explanation (Sometimes a level)

    Quest 3 - Explanation (Sometimes a level)

    Closing Notes Banner

    Thank Phil, Golden Fool and the other people who helped out with the build. These days it's less common but I used to have about 6 names in each build here (especially when I posted Event Builds). Oh and I ramble, here, up there...everywhere really but this is a dedicated section for it.

  • Member
    September 19, 2017

    I generally try to do something along the lines of what Noodles is doing. I don't mean to say I mindlessly copy him, but his presentation is always top notch, so why not draw inspiration from it? Of course I try to add my own ideas. I like to have a lot of pictures, because they can give a good idea of the character without you having to even say anything, and, as we all know, they help keep from having a wall o' text.

    A more recent thing I've tried is having quotes throughout my presentation either from my character or people talking about him/her. An example from my current build is:

    "You think that platinum whore is gonna come back again, tryna steal our stuff?"

    "I dunno, but she can have my shit! I'm not gettin' blown up!"

    It's a more interesting way to reveal things about the character than just stating them and gives a point of view other than that of the character. It can even be a way to add some humor or perhaps dramatic effect in a more serious build. My presentation does changes a little from build to build based on what info I need for it and I have tried changing things up and doing something out of the box, but I just go back to what I always do and it stays pretty consistent.

  • Member
    September 19, 2017

    I dunno, man. This is easily a subject I could turn into Heimskr over and start ranting. I think too much stock is put into presentation and layout. I find joy in both the extremely artistic and those builds which expressed nearly all the information required using words alone. I think that's because I accept something on its own merit rather than compare it to something else, you know? Individual creativity is what is important, and the passion and enthusiasm is evident in a build regardless of how it's done.

    Like, The Demon Hunter remains one of my favourite builds on the site. It was one of two builds, along with the Swordthane, that drew me in. They are as inspirational now as they were in 2012. That was the sort of thing I "grew up" with and inspired me to try my hand. Over the years trends have come and gone, perkspreads were added and equipment spreads took off, but for me, I can't help but still admire that original spark that we all feel when we first start typing. 

    How that spark is portrayed is part of the fun, and ultimately the only thing that matters. 

    So all of my stuff is indicitive of those early inspirations. It's probably really old fashioned to think like that now, but it's just what I like. I tried to do perkspreads and stuff, and now I know how yet decided I don't enjoy the process so I don't do it. So yeah, old school is what I find enjoyable to do. I enjoy any build others do that clearly shows how much fun they had. 

  • September 19, 2017

    Legion said:

    I want to reduce my wordcount and use more images to convey meaning; and I want to explain a build through a story. Both affect layout, though I'm currently unsure how significant their effects will be. 

    To convey a story when I build is something I always strive to do. 

     

  • Member
    September 19, 2017

    With the Mage Knight I stuck to a very simple, functional order of content (Overview/Skills, Perks/(Spell Selection and Usage)/Equipment/Gameplay and Combat/Roleplay) and I think (hope?) it worked exceptionally, but the Mage Knight, in the end, was actually a very simplistic build that focused 100% on playstyle and combat - I wasn't looking to tell any interesting stories.

    That said, while there's always room for tinkering and I'm not gonna say that the layout order is set in stone, there are spillover effects. Notably, I feel like nearly every build now opens with Race, Stat Distribution, Standing Stone. This, despite the fact that one of the build templates puts Race/Stats/Stone below Skills and Perks. Partially, it just makes sense to do it that way - if it matters a lot you have the opportunity to explain why it's so crucial to the build right off the bat, and if it only matters a bit you just get them out of the way first. In either case it's an exceptional way to kick off the build - Character Creation. Very poetic, fitting. Stuff.

    I'll suggest that depending on the build, different ordering of individual sections will be different. And depending on both the build and the builder, there are going to be more, or less tidbits here and there. I personally always skip the backstory section in a build. If a build doesn't work at all without a backstory section, then I don't think it's very good - some things can be "explained" in a backstory, but the build should be cohesive without it. Ideally (to me) a backstory can be explained within the build itself. Something like the Prodigy (I keep talking about this build, for some reason) has a backstory that's pretty integral to the functioning of the build. And it has a backstory that fits in one sentence. Or, y'know, let's talk about the Outsider. It's got a massive backstory steeped in Lore; a ton of it is sprinkled throughout the build, enriching the reading experience. But everything you really need to know about it is summarised by Liss in one sentence that's even shorter than the Prodigy's one sentence (though to be fair, Henantier has only about three paragraphs of one book in Skyrim about him, so perhaps saying "massive backstory steeped in Lore" is inaccurate).

    Ready to hear it? "This build is based on Henantier the Outsider, the first Elven Harbinger." One sentence summarises everything you really need to know about the build backstory.

    Obviously, the backstory shines in other ways. Liss is a talent at capturing Henantier's voice, both in writing and in image presentation, and by scattering it throughout the build instead of clumping it into one section at the start, she can hit the highlights as well as talk about what Henantier does within Skyrim as well as before Skyrim. It really works exceptionally, but that's not the point I'm making here. To me (and I want to emphasise again that I do not speak for anyone else) that is the ideal. To me, big backstories (and even shortish ones) are clunky. I don't care for them when I look at a build.

    It's why one question I commonly ask is, "What is the goal of the build - are we to play your character, or just our character with your build?" It's not always an easy question to answer, and while I tend to think the latter is the correct answer, I can't condemn the former outright.

    Ugh, I've been ranting about backstories, haven't I? I'm about done, anyway, so I'll stop here.