Elder Scrolls Lore » Discussions


Thalmor, Alduin, and the implications of a new kalpa

  • February 28, 2018

    Kalpa. Still can't nail that tusker down, with most of the info coming from Exegenesis of Merid or what's it called, and Lyg. It is implied it is an time epoch of birth, life and death of that period, ended by Alduin. So that implies soft reset that maybe goes back to the moment of creation - maybe, tough to nail down.

    We know Lyg had only few gods that made it to the current Kalpa such as Dagon and Meridia, but there is no mention of the others. So if shit ends, it could end all, with only Talos making it through, maybe becoming new godhead or something.

    Thalmor... Thalmor want to go back tp something they THINK they remember and that is that cool time when they were immortal and free as gods or whatever hippie bollocks.

    Alduin eats the world, restarting it but elves are all about stasis, so they want to remove those things forcing the change. Man, Talos, Towers. Remove that and in Thalmor's believe it's going to restore the world back to the stasis of Merethic Era, which was so cool time for them - but I think they don't really remember shit about it. Sorry for the long wall of text, writing on phone. Could you divide it into paragraphs for me, Phil?

  • February 28, 2018

    By the way, this is me during this discussion. All the things and the shards and the shattering and the Aka and the towers and the stones...there’s just so MUCH. I don’t even know enough to know if what I’m asking even makes any kind of sense. 

     

    https://mobile.twitter.com/simpsons_tweets/status/782953102538190848?lang=en

  • Member
    February 28, 2018

    ilanisilver said:

    By the way, this is me during this discussion. All the things and the shards and the shattering and the Aka and the towers and the stones...there’s just so MUCH. I don’t even know enough to know if what I’m asking even makes any kind of sense. 

    https://mobile.twitter.com/simpsons_tweets/status/782953102538190848?lang=en

    To be honest, most of us are just rambling whenever we talk about meta-lore. We do understand what each of us are saying; not the whole picture, but pieces of the puzzle. If you get what I mean.

    When I tried getting into the meta-lore of TES for the first time, I was like...

  • Member
    February 28, 2018

    Yeah, we don't worry about getting it right. There's no fun in perfection. And often it's the imperfections which resonate.

    A good example is the Thu'um. In TES V there are three different sources saying three different things. One says Kyne gave Nords the voice. One says Paarthurnax taught it them. Another says it was Akatosh. Which is right and what is the truth? That doesn't matter, what matters is what resonates in you.

    Reading Shor Son of Shor will make your mind feel like Almalexia's butt hole after a night with Vivec. Reading the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes will make your thoughts feel like an Argonian Maid after an evening with anyone. Ultimately, each source can be used like Sotha Sil uses a clockwork oscilator.  What matters is the fuzzy feeling after.

    Edit: So yeah, what you are asking is perfect. The right questions. But the answers are unsatisfactory until you find your own. Go look for Marelo Ryan if you want as-near-as-dammit perfect ;) But better still, keep doing this sort of thing, or feel confident to summarise what you learn and think. That way we all learn at the same time, and can exchange ideas better :)

  • Member
    February 28, 2018

    I'm going to try and type my interpretations out without bullshit.

    So, the way I see it. The Kalpic cycle represents the end of one and the begining of another, as remembered by the godhead. That's why there are inconsitencies. Sometimes the sources conflict because Anu can't remember clearly. Like, the Nords think they were first. They were breathed to life on the Throat of the World, then migrated elsewhere. Then came back. The truth of this could be that all life started in Tamriel, and all looked like giants. They wandered, fought, and over time diminished to come back as we see them now. The giants being last remnants of what could be Ehlnofey.

    When the next cycle starts, it will be the memories of this one and all the previous ones combined. Things will look different and the actors will change, but the story will remain the same. Like Romeo and Juliet becoming West Side Story.

    MK says “Assume The Dawn Era was the End of the Previous Kalpa. The new Kalpa begins with the first day of the Merethic Era." That's because the Merethic Era (or Mythic era) is the end of the non-linearity of the Dawn Era. Lorkhan's trick or plan worked, and the Dragon of Time is bound. The personalities of these beings is beyond our ken, but they do get influenced and shaped into different structures by our beliefs.

    So. Alduin is the end time aspect of the Time Dragon for the Nords. It's feasible to think that the Elves won't recognise Alduin as being that, because they would have their own version. So to the Thalmor, Yeah, Alduin's a threat. Some people like Esbern or Delphine think the Thalmor are responsible because Alduin plays into Thalmor hands. But to the Thalmor, it's a big scary dragon.

    When the end does come, it will all reset and start again. It will be the same but different. The Elves want to end it their way and go back to that mythical realm of Aldmeris, the place of their ancestors - which are Ehlnofey, et'ada. Original Spirits. They don't have a cicular worldview like men, so to them it will be a full stop.

    But to do that they need to unbind the dragon. The dragon is bound by the towers. Because the kalpic cycle is a cycle, and the Elder Scrolls are basically the game world, the Towers fate is always to fall. The Elves need to gain cultural supremacy to make reality refelct what they want, and when that happens they can remove Talos and win the game.

    Talos, though, is Lorkhan. He wants things to stay the same. So does Akatosh and all the Divines, because in some stories they love the world and willingly gave up their lives for it. They are connected to it, and all the souls who believe in them go to them, and in turn go back to the world. So to change the story means to change the Towers. The Divines don't have freedom, they are trapped and will always be shaped by the beliefs of the people.

    Lorkhan, though, is free to wander the Tower. It's his realm and his prison. He was missing, but was mantled by Talos. Talos is the new Lorkhan/Shezarr/Shor. Removing him is hard and only the Prisoner has more freedom than he. The Prisoner can see beyond the prison and know its limits.

    Conveniently, we are the Prisoner. It's both metaphysics and meta-game. We can see beyond the tower because we know it's a game and can walk out of its confines by powering off.

    So it boils down to this: The Thalmor can want what they want. Until it is written by an Elder Scroll (ie, a game) nothing will happen. As soon as that Scroll is written, only we will start the process of either writing the next one or spelling its end. We can only asume the events of TES V were because the Scrolls deemed the ending to be not yet. The Towers that have fallen are just the ending of theme songs or that region's story, not the end of the world. But when Ur-Tower falls, and Talos stops acting to save the world, then the next cycle will start.

    So the Elves could get what they want, but how that will look is difficult to say as I think it is tied to the very Starry Heart of the story, and why I think the next game will continue the man v mer theme.

    Then we get to Landfall and C0DA. And I ain't touching that.

  • February 28, 2018

    @Pocky - yes. My mind is currently full of fuck. 

     

    @Karver and Paws: thanks. and I’m cursing and ripping my hair out because now I have to do what I’ve avoided - read tower lore. 

     

    @Paws: “what is right is what resonates in you.” what I like about lore is taking a piece of it and making my story fit around it, while not using it like dogma. And using it to answer questions I’ve always had about the game itself. So much fun. 

     

     

  • Member
    February 28, 2018

    ilanisilver said:

    @Pocky - yes. My mind is currently full of fuck. 

     

    @Karver and Paws: thanks. and I’m cursing and ripping my hair out because now I have to do what I’ve avoided - read tower lore. 

     

    @Paws: “what is right is what resonates in you.” what I like about lore is taking a piece of it and making my story fit around it, while not using it like dogma. And using it to answer questions I’ve always had about the game itself. So much fun. 

     

    Good, as long as it's fun! :) Lore can be a rabbit hole, and sometimes it's the small things which really matter. A top view looking down and seeing how each element works can ruin the magic. I remember when I really wanted to dig in to why it is the main character has no backstory. Apart from the designers encouraging us to write our own, what was the significance of that blank? Why did the Hero turn up at that moment, just when he or she is needed? Why do they fade into almost obscurity after to the point where history can't remember their name, race, and only remembers the deeds? All can be explained away as a necessary evil of the medium, but to give it an in-universe explanation can leave an empty hole.

    It is definitely a case of the more familiarity you have with the sources, the more you can find your own interpretation - like with the Towers. There is merit in consensus, but the game world should remain a personal thing, too, accessible to all and free to see it how you see it :)